Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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I suggest bringing in Nasser for the Egyptians later in the game; it's just that seeing Cleopatra in the 19th century looks wrong ;)
OR if you could find him, Mohammed Ali, would actually be better IMO

Yessss!!!! Muhammad Ali Pasha is the most awesome idea ever for the unplayable modern Egyptian respawn leader :D

Also I agree, Leoreth you should add a lot more independent cities around the map, but I would suggest especially in China, also I would add an independent Sparta or Pellas (or both) heavily defended, I think that would make for a very interesting game
Also agreed. I'm not exactly sure how AIs would be able to handle an independent Sparta. But I think maybe if AIs aren't able to conquer certain newly added within core area independent AI cities (such as Greece with Pella, or Spain with Grenada/Cordoba) then scripted city flips should be added later on just for AI controlled players.

I also agree with more/stronger independents in China (even if it means adjusting China's UHV slightly or giving them a bit more of a production boost).

I think after the 1950's, there should be a lot more colonies, especially in Africa, declaring independence from their colonizer civs. Maybe have there be a %likelihood many African cities declare independence be related to colonizer civ stability. Also strengthen European civs with slight buffs so that they would be able to handle the latter 20th century without like half their colonies.

Which brings me up to another civics idea. I was thinking maybe there could be another civic option called "Union" that represents a collection of nations united by their colonial past coming together reach common goals.

This could represent current and historical entities such as the UK's The Commonwealth of Nations, the French Union and the Arab League, maybe even other supranational entities such as the African Union and the European Union.

Due to an increased %likelihood of colonies (such as African colonies) declaring independence , "Union" will greatly reduce that percentage of cities outside of the core area declaring their independence. Cities outside of the core area would also require a lot less (maybe 75% less) maintenance. The downside to this civic is that cities within the core area pay 75% more maintenance and cities outside of the core area have a 75% commerce/science penalty, national wonder production penalty and military unit production penalty.

I'm hoping if both the increase in independence declarations and the "union" civic are both implemented, so many more modern states could be better represented. For example in the case of Canada and Australia, I think due to their friendly relations with the UK, they are much better being represented as part of the England civ that do not produce military units for the English very well, than independent civs which cannot allow English or civs friendly with the English to pass through their territories. Independent Canada and Australia would probably just be reconquered by England or conquered by other powerhouses such as the US.


Summary of suggested implementations

-Make the chance a city outside of core area declares independence be based on civ stability. Increase %likelihood a colony declares independence after nationalism by additional 200%. Increase %likelihood colonies declares independence after tech x ~1950's by additional 200%.
-Don't make nonplayable civ modern respawns happen with absolute certainty. Instead, give them a high %likelihood of respawning between years x and y with the %chance again dependent upon colonizer civ's stability.
-give production/commerce/science boost to European core cities.

Union
-cities outside of core area 50% less likely to declare independence
-cities outside of core area require 75% less maintenance, and produce 75% less commerce, and have 90% military unit and national wonder/project production penalty
-cities in core area require 75% more maintenance
-independent cities 300% more inclined to join your empire, foreign cities 150% more inclined to join your empire.
-foreign civs more likely to want to be your vassal

civic best for civs with few cities in core area, and lots of colonies outside of core area.
 
Promise kept :)

Version 1.63 available here.

[SPOILER="Features 1.63]
  • removed the overlap between Phoenicia's and Babylonia's core
  • adjusted the economic/growth/AI modifiers to fit with Italy
  • made Phoenicia autoraze Gordion and Hattusas
  • increased the likeliness of a Roman war on Greece
  • "Italy" now also represents Renaissance Italy
    • spawn in 1167 (Lombard League)
    • "Lion of Mark" coat of arms (courtesy of the RFCEurope modmod)
  • implemented the Italian UP: The Power of Renaissance - wonders add their value in culture as GPP
  • implemented the Italian UHV:
    • Be the first to discover Banking, Optics, Radio and Fascism
    • Acquire 8 happiness resources by 1500 AD
    • Control Greece, Libya and Ethiopia in 1930 AD
  • implemented the Italian city names map and city name checks
  • added dynamic GP names for Italy
  • implemented overlay maps for Italy: settler/stability, AI wars
  • added dynamic names for Italy
  • moved Massilia one tile west, Venice one tile east, along with corresponding resource movements
  • wine and clams spawn in Savoy 1100 AD
  • The civilopedia entry for the Apostolic Palace now acknowledges that it moves the holy city of its religion
  • disabled switch to a reborn civilization during autoplay
  • placed Adur Farnbag and a Zoroastrian temple in Sirajis in the 600 AD scenario
  • increased Netherlands tech speed by roughly 15%
[/SPOILER]

Now it's time for balancing. I'd like you to observe how well Italy can do under both human and AI control.
 
Yeah, the Bersagliere (Infantry with movement 2). It's in since 1.6.
 
Played a bit as Italy.

First, my mistake, maybe I shouldn't have waited playing France. I conquered Rome so maybe it made my Italian game more difficult.

Secondly, the spawn is kinda weak. You only get Venezia, no workers or settlers (the last of which is ok). The military you get is ok -- I had a good chunk of troops in Rome before the switch so it's my fault I couldn't take them out.

Still it's easy to be squizzed, just check the screenshot here: http://imm.io/1zPq

You know what would be nice? To get the culture from captured wonders!

I should try another game where I played someone else; and maybe from 3000 BC.
 
A few questions/comments:
1. Started a game as the Ottomans, and within my starting army I had a Great Merchant, bug I'm presuming? ;)
2. Why is the Italian capital Venice? Shouldn't it be Rome if ANYTHING?
3. I strongly suggest moving the German capital to Augsburg or another city (not to mention it's hugely ahistorical), because Vienna is too close to Venice, and the Germans so far have already conquered Venice.
4. I would give walls to Venice at the beginning of the game.
5. Why can I not select the Italians from the civilization chooser in the 600AD campaign?
6. Please consider adding unique VD units/textures to this mod. I think it's really one of the only things lacking, and it would add a REALLY nice touch to this mod. Plus I don't think it would be too hard to implement.
7. The Arabs never moved their capital to Baghdad
8. Please consider having new New World European cities have their state religion being spread their. So when a Spanish, French, English etc settler founds a city in the world, it would be nice for their state religion to be founded with the city as well.
9. China REALLY needs a STRONG respawn. Currently when they respawn close to 1900, they just quickly collapse as well soon after. We really need to see a strong China, and the decline of the Mongol state.
10. Can you please put one more food resource near Limantobo/Coqonatambu, tile (30, 16), its quite a bad city as it is.
11. Please add Quito to tile (25,29)
12. Give the Byzantines a city in Southern Italy, to represent their lasting presence in southern Italy. (Bari would work, but Palermo or Sycrause would also go well)
 
A few questions/comments:
1. Started a game as the Ottomans, and within my starting army I had a Great Merchant, bug I'm presuming? ;)
2. Why is the Italian capital Venice? Shouldn't it be Rome if ANYTHING?
3. I strongly suggest moving the German capital to Augsburg or another city (not to mention it's hugely ahistorical), because Vienna is too close to Venice, and the Germans so far have already conquered Venice.
4. I would give walls to Venice at the beginning of the game.
5. Why can I not select the Italians from the civilization chooser in the 600AD campaign?
6. Please consider adding unique VD units/textures to this mod. I think it's really one of the only things lacking, and it would add a REALLY nice touch to this mod. Plus I don't think it would be too hard to implement.
7. The Arabs never moved their capital to Baghdad
8. Please consider having new New World European cities have their state religion being spread their. So when a Spanish, French, English etc settler founds a city in the world, it would be nice for their state religion to be founded with the city as well.
9. China REALLY needs a STRONG respawn. Currently when they respawn close to 1900, they just quickly collapse as well soon after. We really need to see a strong China, and the decline of the Mongol state.
10. Can you please put one more food resource near Limantobo/Coqonatambu, tile (30, 16), its quite a bad city as it is.
11. Please add Quito to tile (25,29)
12. Give the Byzantines a city in Southern Italy, to represent their lasting presence in southern Italy. (Bari would work, but Palermo or Sycrause would also go well)

1) Didn't you know your people were famous Merchants before the fall of Constantinople...:lol:

2) Venice was a major Italian power during the Rennaisance Ages(saying that Italy's capital should be Rome on spawn is like saying Japan's Capital should be Tokyo/Edo on spawn).

3) Vienna is(and was) the Capital of Austria, a German state, but I think that Frankfurt is still a much better city site though.

5) This is one thing I would like to see too(Although I like to play as France or Germany, trying to mess up European politics so that there is too much war too try to out-tech me).

6) Something that could be added as modular, so that those of us who want it can keep it, but those of us who don't can easily delete it.

7) The AI never moves it's Capital(w/ exception of the Turks).

9) Personally I would like to see China's Capital moved to Louyang or Chang'an, so that they have a chance at surviving the Mongols(as they never conquer farther South than Beijing), thus not requiring a respawn.

12) I personally added a Byzantine Napoli(in the tile of Bari, but I pefer the name Napoli, as it's well known), Palermo, and Tunis.

Sidenote: Leoreth, maybe you should make an Italian embassy along with a Roman embassy...
:goodjob: with Italy nonetheless!
 

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A few questions/comments:
1. Started a game as the Ottomans, and within my starting army I had a Great Merchant, bug I'm presuming? ;)
2. Why is the Italian capital Venice? Shouldn't it be Rome if ANYTHING?
3. I strongly suggest moving the German capital to Augsburg or another city (not to mention it's hugely ahistorical), because Vienna is too close to Venice, and the Germans so far have already conquered Venice.
4. I would give walls to Venice at the beginning of the game.
5. Why can I not select the Italians from the civilization chooser in the 600AD campaign?
6. Please consider adding unique VD units/textures to this mod. I think it's really one of the only things lacking, and it would add a REALLY nice touch to this mod. Plus I don't think it would be too hard to implement.
7. The Arabs never moved their capital to Baghdad
8. Please consider having new New World European cities have their state religion being spread their. So when a Spanish, French, English etc settler founds a city in the world, it would be nice for their state religion to be founded with the city as well.
9. China REALLY needs a STRONG respawn. Currently when they respawn close to 1900, they just quickly collapse as well soon after. We really need to see a strong China, and the decline of the Mongol state.
10. Can you please put one more food resource near Limantobo/Coqonatambu, tile (30, 16), its quite a bad city as it is.
11. Please add Quito to tile (25,29)
12. Give the Byzantines a city in Southern Italy, to represent their lasting presence in southern Italy. (Bari would work, but Palermo or Sycrause would also go well)
1. If there was a merchant in your starting location, he flips to you. Lucky.
2. If I had Rome as the capital of Renaissance you Italy, you would have complained about ahistoricity. Admit it :p
3. Isn't Italy getting conquered what you wanted to see?
4. Makes sense.
5. Because their spawn works outside of Rhye's spawn mechanism, and I've not figured out how to use the autoplay yet. I suggest starting as Inca and switching after three turns (switching to Italy doesn't count towards the "only one switch" limit).
6. Considered ;)
7. This wasn't a documented feature yet, and I already said I will touch that only in 1.7.

Sidenote: Leoreth, maybe you should make an Italian embassy along with a Roman embassy...
:goodjob: with Italy nonetheless!
The problem is that internally, Rome is the same civ as Italy. I can't just add an Italian embassy because the embassies follow in the same succession as their civs. So without modifying the embassy code, I can't just add a new embassy without messing things up.
 
Hey Leoreth, I had an issue with Italy... Started as the Portugueses but when I switched to Italy, it said I was defeated. Gonna try again.

Edit: the bug with mayans popping is gone right?
 
Hey Leoreth, I had an issue with Italy... Started as the Portugueses but when I switched to Italy, it said I was defeated. Gonna try again.
Do you have Python exceptions enabled?

Edit: the bug with mayans popping is gone right?
I fixed an error that occured before and wasn't able to reproduce the problem afterwards. Please report if you still have problems there.
 
Hey Leoreth, did you get a chance to see my previous post about the "union" civic and more independent cities yet?

I'll be glad to give Italy a spin when I get a chance. Though I'm current stuck in the LSE for two semesters without my civ disk... :(
Quick question, do players currently control whether they get Turino or Genoa? Do they get a settler or does that city flip to them?

I also think you should include in your first post, some things short term changes you're planning to implement in the immediate next version and long term changes you'll consider implementing.
 
1. If there was a merchant in your starting location, he flips to you. Lucky.
2. If I had Rome as the capital of Renaissance you Italy, you would have complained about ahistoricity. Admit it :p
3. Isn't Italy getting conquered what you wanted to see?
4. Makes sense.
5. Because their spawn works outside of Rhye's spawn mechanism, and I've not figured out how to use the autoplay yet. I suggest starting as Inca and switching after three turns (switching to Italy doesn't count towards the "only one switch" limit).
6. Considered ;)
7. This wasn't a documented feature yet, and I already said I will touch that only in 1.7.
1. Really? That really sucks for the AI player then :D
2. Actually I wouldn't. In fact the entire "civilization" is very ahistorical, so I think having Rome as the capital would make more sense (especially considering that it was the most important city in Italy if not in the whole of Europe)
3. Yes it is, but currently I think moving the capital to Vienna is very ahistorical, I think putting it on the other side of the Alps would be a better idea overa..
4-7. Cool/ Ok! :goodjob:
 
By the way Leoreth, when you changed some peaks to hills, you didn't change the stability maps for the respective civs : the eastern tile of Cuba is considered "foreign" for Spain for example.
And those changes are great : I would've considered settling this tile in Cuba if it had not been for the stability.

About the "Caribbean is not well represented" pb, is it possible to change the Spanish UP to a bonus in the Caribbean cities ? Like double gold production until 1750 ?
 
@Leoreth: I had no issue with the mayan spawn. And yes, python exceptions are on but nothing popped.

Also, I feel there's really not many wonders to build in Asia/Middle East, which is kinda sad compared to the plethora you can build in Europe.
 
Great update!:goodjob: I am really enjoying the new Italian civ.:)

However, I had some issues in my Italian game:

-The Italian civic upkeep and maintenance costs are way too low, rather non-existant. This was clearly the biggest issue

-Indies have letter named GPs as well

Spoiler :


-This happened when I was buying mercenaries, I reloaded an autosave and no problems

Spoiler :


-The UP doesn't function properly

Spoiler :


-This isn't even a bug, but just funny: I am getting 1food+1commerce from a peak, because I found truffles there.:lol:

Spoiler :
 
Does Rome have to collapse before Italy spawns? What happens if you play Rome from 3000bc?
 
Hey Leoreth, did you get a chance to see my previous post about the "union" civic and more independent cities yet?
Yeah, I saw your suggestion. Sorry that I can't comment on everything, especially ideas that complex can't be treated in a few sentences. Everything you write here is considered by me, of course, and it's always been my philosophy to let the more complex things sink in for some days.

Quick question, do players currently control whether they get Turino or Genoa? Do they get a settler or does that city flip to them?
There is no preplaced city in western Lombardy, but Italy currently spawns with one settler, so you can theoretically choose between Milan, Genoa, Florence and Turin.

The only problem is that the AI hesitates to use its settler there, I guess because foreign Rome is so close.

I also think you should include in your first post, some things short term changes you're planning to implement in the immediate next version and long term changes you'll consider implementing.
It's the same thing as cleaning up your desk. You know it'll be an advantage to everyone and not even that much work, but you still ... don't do it. I hope I find time these days to rework the opening post completely.

2. Actually I wouldn't. In fact the entire "civilization" is very ahistorical, so I think having Rome as the capital would make more sense (especially considering that it was the most important city in Italy if not in the whole of Europe)
3. Yes it is, but currently I think moving the capital to Vienna is very ahistorical, I think putting it on the other side of the Alps would be a better idea overall
2. I still think it provides some early challenge for the player to overcome. I have more problems with how the AI handles it, maybe I should help them a bit like embryodead did with city revolts.
3. Vienna is more historical than Augsburg, at least. If we want a historical capital for the HRE period, it can only be Vienna ... the early HRE had no capital per se.

By the way Leoreth, when you changed some peaks to hills, you didn't change the stability maps for the respective civs : the eastern tile of Cuba is considered "foreign" for Spain for example.
And those changes are great : I would've considered settling this tile in Cuba if it had not been for the stability.
Yeah, I didn't know how to change that at the time. It's just a little effort now. And one unstable tile isn't that bad, even if you settle on it.

About the "Caribbean is not well represented" pb, is it possible to change the Spanish UP to a bonus in the Caribbean cities ? Like double gold production until 1750 ?
Good idea ... I'll start having it sink in ;)

And yes, python exceptions are on but nothing popped.
Okay, just needed to be sure. Then I guess there's something wrong in the "prevent italy switch from showing up during autoplay" check.

Also, I feel there's really not many wonders to build in Asia/Middle East, which is kinda sad compared to the plethora you can build in Europe.
I also feel so, but I only can work with the models I'm given. But some pages ago someone posted a list of wonders, many Asian ones among them, and I'm quite confident some of them will make it into the next version.

Great update!:goodjob: I am really enjoying the new Italian civ.:)
Thanks, that's nice to hear :)

However, I had some issues in my Italian game:

-The Italian civic upkeep and maintenance costs are way too low, rather non-existant. This was clearly the biggest issue
Okay, maybe I got something wrong with the coefficients there.

-Indies have letter named GPs as well
I guess that has something to with Indies only having one "unique" name: "Great Independent ____". But that will hopefully be no problem anymore as soon as I've moved the code to the DLL (which I plan for the next version).

-This happened when I was buying mercenaries, I reloaded an autosave and no problems
Weird. Other than removing the Carthaginian UP, I made no change to the mercenary files.

-The UP doesn't function properly
Damn. But I'm not entirely happy with the whole idea yet, anyway.

Does Rome have to collapse before Italy spawns? What happens if you play Rome from 3000bc?
Yes exactly, which answers your second question as well (no Italy, because you're still alive). I'm currently considering to add a voluntary (for the player) or random (for the AI) change to Italy even if Rome is alive, but that's not set in stone at the moment.

Leoreth: When you play around with the Arabs in v. 1.7 could you "touch up" the Babylonian UP? Kind of a small revamp of the area... :D
Yeah, if my versions had titles the next one would probably be called "Mesopotamia and the Middle East" ;)

My currently favorite idea is an in-built absolutism bonus after you discover Code of Laws. It would synch up quite nicely with Babylonia's tendency to only have one city.
 
@Leoreth: that's good to hear, about the wonders. But I'd say you don't *need* models, really. They're buildings, who cares? I mean, it's not like the civilization flag which is ubiquitous. You really have to look to see buildings.

(Back among the FFH modding community, we've got the habit of putting things in even without graphics and only add graphics later if we ever find some.)

Also, about Italy's UP, I suggested it made it so captured wonders would still grant culture. You could simply combine both: captured wonders still grant culture and culture from any wonder is added to the gpp pool.
 
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