Guild Ideas

Say the forge is 15% :hammers: (can't remember what it actually is off the top of my head)... Could have a guild offer a unique forge with 20% :hammers:. Very nice, but you cannot build both. No getting 35% :hammers:

A forge is 25%. Boy was my writing sloppy, I meant that it is 20% quicker to build a forge with Stonefires.
 
I really enjoy your discussions about guilds.
I think Milaga has many good ideas and Valkrionn you do, as always :worship:, a good job of regulating his enthusiasm.

Don't fret because I (we) are not really participating.
As for me, I'm delighted and salivating a lot.

Maybe I'll give some ideas, but I haven't played with any guild ever so I won't know what to do with them. (I never got far enough in Orbis/WM/FF/RifE and didn't play BTS...)
 
How about a Guild of Assassins... it would be seperate from a guild of thieves. \
Thieves can possibly steal a percentage of profits in any city they are in. You basically don't want them in your city unless you have the headquarters... or maybe without having it as the required civic or something of that like.
The assassins guild would get promotions to killing off weaker units, or something of that likeness. Possibly some unique events such as killing a high ranking official in another kingdom, causing x turns of turmoil. Possibly blaming it on another kingdom.
Would either require to be chaotic, or evil etc, or perhaps make your empire -5 per turn or whatever the desired effect.
Some Promotions could be giving Poison tipped weapons to any units created in the cities... or having a special building where you can buy special weapons as tools of the assassin trade.
 
I agree with cuteunit, guilds should add coin.

Regarding reworking guilds, I kinda like their current mechanic.
 
I really enjoy your discussions about guilds.
I think Milaga has many good ideas and Valkrionn you do, as always :worship:, a good job of regulating his enthusiasm.

Thanks. I appreciate the compliment and I also appreciate how diplomatically you referred to my "enthusiasm." :D
 
I really enjoy your discussions about guilds.
I think Milaga has many good ideas and Valkrionn you do, as always :worship:, a good job of regulating his enthusiasm.

Don't fret because I (we) are not really participating.
As for me, I'm delighted and salivating a lot.

Maybe I'll give some ideas, but I haven't played with any guild ever so I won't know what to do with them. (I never got far enough in Orbis/WM/FF/RifE and didn't play BTS...)

Hehe, glad you like the idea. :lol:

How about a Guild of Assassins... it would be seperate from a guild of thieves. \
Thieves can possibly steal a percentage of profits in any city they are in. You basically don't want them in your city unless you have the headquarters... or maybe without having it as the required civic or something of that like.
The assassins guild would get promotions to killing off weaker units, or something of that likeness. Possibly some unique events such as killing a high ranking official in another kingdom, causing x turns of turmoil. Possibly blaming it on another kingdom.
Would either require to be chaotic, or evil etc, or perhaps make your empire -5 per turn or whatever the desired effect.
Some Promotions could be giving Poison tipped weapons to any units created in the cities... or having a special building where you can buy special weapons as tools of the assassin trade.

I'm not sure about having it separate, mostly because CoE's main unit is an assassin. As it is, there will be (at the least) a Corsair guild and a Thieves guild, the second of which has ties to CoE.

I agree with cuteunit, guilds should add coin.

Regarding reworking guilds, I kinda like their current mechanic.

Adding coin can be just as bad as adding any other commerce/yield, as it can be used to purchase things. And seeing as guild units/buildings/equipment will generally COST coin, I'm not sure they should generate anything above what the standard buildings do in that department.

Again, no guild will give 'free' commerces, just for having the guild and a resource.

I'm also of the opinion that we either rework guilds, or remove them. I'm not leaving the FF guilds in place, one way or the other. ;)

Will most likely have to wait until the NEXT version though (With the Bezeri, one to two other civs, and a massive new feature).
 
i'm a big fan of the new guild concept. great idea.
i really hated the old guilds because i was micomanaging my city fat cross just to get one or two more production or food and with a single guild i could add over 20 food at once - bah, thats so stupid. i hope the new guilds will be more balanced so the work in terraforming and forest planting (with killing treants on the plot) and so on isnt for nothing compared to the former huge guild benefits.
 
This is just my feelings on the guilds, not the mechanics behind it.
As they are in RifE at the moment, they are really bland, but pretty effective at what they do. Probably too effective.
The thing is, they encourage hoarding of ressources and that's a good thing in my opinion.
In every other game when you see a new ressource somewhere, you're instantly thinking "Great, new ressource! I have to get that!"
In Civ4, without guilds its more of "New ressource? I already have 5 of them. Does it make a good settling point for a new city? No? Then i will ignore it."
And that goes against most of my instincts. The primitive part of my brain says "do want", the logical part says "not worth it".
So I will say that guilds are neccesary and they must have some function to reward someone for having more of the same ressource. Be it affinity on units or some gains per ressource in one form or the other.

That said, generally i like the new concept for guilds. If you can manange to put in some love for those of us that like to hoard stuff, I'm happy.
 
Valkrionn, did the trade route issue (not getting added to commerce) ever get resolved? I'm just asking because I'm not having much of a cash flow problem as it is (trade routes worthless) and any discussion of economic balance is going to get thrown off after those get counted again.
 
There really isn't an issue with the guilds providing a bonus per resource any more so than there is an issue with mana nodes providing an affinity to combat units. (The issue is map size). On a huge map these benefits are so incredibly extreme that you will be crushed if you do not have summons at level 3 or guild(s) in your city. On a smaller map these benefits aren't as great. If these were adjusted to fit the number of civs and/or map size for the gain for each new resource it would equal itself out.

Just for example.. if you start out on a map with 30 civs there will be approximately 50 copper resources on the map (each nation for some reason gets two of them assigned..) and there will be about 120 stone.. lord I have no idea why. However, there will be far less gold resources than if you had only 4 civs. Which tend to populate over the map further away from initial settled areas. Silk providing benefits is insane since spiders can spawn it for you..

In any case.. since we seem to be of the mindset of making guilds provide static bonuses not related to resources, it may be good to point out that switching guilds with nations that have 'no anarchy' could swiftly allow the purchasing of various different normally unallowable items. It also seems a bit of a waste of a great person to put a second guild down in a city when you need to change civics just to use them (unlike religions which provide mana and a coinage bonus).
 
I think that the Infernals should get access to some guilds maybe a arcane guild that uses demons to make money and magical stuff.

I also think it would be good if you purchase units from the guilds. Depending on what guild you have active will depend on what promotions it starts off with. Buying a mage from an arcane guild that likes demon and undead will have promotions like death and entropy while a guild that dislikes demons and undead might give you a unit with life and nature promotions.

This would work like the hire mercenary button that's in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization or the ship units from off world button that's in Dune Wars. You could see the units and what promotion they have and buy the ones you want.

I think that it would be good for there to be a good, neutral and evil guild for each type of guild. Good guilds will only make money by honest means. Neutral guilds just want to make money but wouldn't commit crimes (or in the case of the thieves guild kill. They just want to steal) do make it but at the same time they would not go out of their way to help people. Evil guilds have no morels they will kidnap, kill, steal, summon demons anything to make money.

That's my idea anyway, probably will come up with some more later. Keep up the good work. :goodjob:
 
There really isn't an issue with the guilds providing a bonus per resource any more so than there is an issue with mana nodes providing an affinity to combat units. (The issue is map size). On a huge map these benefits are so incredibly extreme that you will be crushed if you do not have summons at level 3 or guild(s) in your city. On a smaller map these benefits aren't as great. If these were adjusted to fit the number of civs and/or map size for the gain for each new resource it would equal itself out.

Just for example.. if you start out on a map with 30 civs there will be approximately 50 copper resources on the map (each nation for some reason gets two of them assigned..) and there will be about 120 stone.. lord I have no idea why. However, there will be far less gold resources than if you had only 4 civs. Which tend to populate over the map further away from initial settled areas. Silk providing benefits is insane since spiders can spawn it for you..

In any case.. since we seem to be of the mindset of making guilds provide static bonuses not related to resources, it may be good to point out that switching guilds with nations that have 'no anarchy' could swiftly allow the purchasing of various different normally unallowable items. It also seems a bit of a waste of a great person to put a second guild down in a city when you need to change civics just to use them (unlike religions which provide mana and a coinage bonus).

Yes, that's a big part of the problem; The rest is that I simply dislike the BtS mechanic, and want it gone. Also, as I've suggested above, an enhanced affinity system could well be in the works; I could probably get it to scale to mapsize as well.

As for the last paragraph: Switching guilds would not cause anarchy, and the Spiritual trait would not affect it. It would cost Gold, and that's about it. There's also nothing to say that they must be founded by a great person.

I think that the Infernals should get access to some guilds maybe a arcane guild that uses demons to make money and magical stuff.

I also think it would be good if you purchase units from the guilds. Depending on what guild you have active will depend on what promotions it starts off with. Buying a mage from an arcane guild that likes demon and undead will have promotions like death and entropy while a guild that dislikes demons and undead might give you a unit with life and nature promotions.

This would work like the hire mercenary button that's in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization or the ship units from off world button that's in Dune Wars. You could see the units and what promotion they have and buy the ones you want.

I think that it would be good for there to be a good, neutral and evil guild for each type of guild. Good guilds will only make money by honest means. Neutral guilds just want to make money but wouldn't commit crimes (or in the case of the thieves guild kill. They just want to steal) do make it but at the same time they would not go out of their way to help people. Evil guilds have no morels they will kidnap, kill, steal, summon demons anything to make money.

That's my idea anyway, probably will come up with some more later. Keep up the good work. :goodjob:

IIRC, the system in Rhye's was in Orbis and caused massive OOS errors. I'll see if the one in Dune Wars functions correctly.

As for Good/Neutral/Evil versions... No. That leads to far too much duplication.
 
I was just thinking that it might actually be possible to still have guilds provide a production, food, or commerce bonus to cities, but rather than be based on the number of resources you have, they provide a flat bonus if you have one. Masquarade for example could give you 1 culture if you have dye and silk, and .5 commerce if you have sheep or cotton. Some of these buildings could be automatically constructed if the guild is present, and others would have to be built.
 
I was just thinking that it might actually be possible to still have guilds provide a production, food, or commerce bonus to cities, but rather than be based on the number of resources you have, they provide a flat bonus if you have one. Masquarade for example could give you 1 culture if you have dye and silk, and .5 commerce if you have sheep or cotton. Some of these buildings could be automatically constructed if the guild is present, and others would have to be built.

I'm actually planning something along those lines for some guilds. ;)
 
Personally I dislike any point where I have to make a choice to get one or the other.
I find it extremely ofputing if I can not have both, regardless of how absurd high the required effort is to do so.

Other than that I like the things you posted.
 
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