DLC Model Discussion

Menzies · Aug 16, 2011

jtb1127 said:
No, they would be praised for finally releasing game improving mechanics along with new content. Patches can never have the capacity to improve a game very much at one time.

Actually, he's right... People did complain a lot at the time of the release of warlords saying that it was very shallow outside of new civs and the new mechanics were quite frankly poor and seemingly rushed. Actually, a lot of people said that the new mechanics in Beyond the Sword were rushed and buggy (which was very true at the time of release), but as with everything we tend to put things from the past on a nice little pedestal. It'll be funny in 3-4 years time when this forum is full of threads about how Civ VI is rubbish and couldn't hold a candle to Civ V and how Civ VI is a step backwards etc. '

Beyond the Sword was good but I think some people give it a little bit too much credit these days. The corporations were a tad unbalanced and as such you could pretty much take over the world from them alone if you knew what you were doing. Spys had their problems too and a lot of people didn't like them. Not to mention the fact that the AI was never fixed in Civ IV and they were even more crazy than in Civ V. The only difference being they could hide behind their religion as an easy cure all for all confusing politics.

Back on topic though they wouldn't be praised around here unless they made the most perfect bug free super game with a few new inventive and well balanced features, and as this has never happened before I doubt it ever will. What will happen is they'll release some new content at some point that will change the game in some significant way, get criticised and some 3-4 years down the track when they release something new people will point to it as the greatest achievement of mankind whilst condemning whatever they released at the time. Of course this cycle will repeat, but hey.

If you want to really be an anti-money grabbing tactics then you should condemn expansion packs anyhow, as there have been people who complained about them as content that "should have been in from the beginning". The only difference is that we're used to expansion packs now. Change is scary, but its a brave new world, and there's nothing to say they won't "charge us for patches" (that is, make an expansion pack) in the future. Have a nice day.

puyo · Aug 16, 2011

jtb1127 said:
New Civs
-Babylon
-Byzantine
-Dutch
-Ethiopia
-Holy Rome
-Khmer
-Maya
-Native American
-Portugal
-and Sumeria
Please Note: Each of these Civs comes with a unique units and building!

New Leaders
-Abe Lincoln
-Boudica
-Pericles
-Suleiman
-Darius I

New Buildings
-Customs House
-Industrial Park
-Intelligence Agency
-Levee
-Public Transportation
-Security Bureau

New Units
-Airship
-Anti-Tank
-Attack Submarine
-Cuirassier
-Guided Missile
-Missile Cruiser
-Mobile Artillery
-Mobile SAM
-Paratrooper
-Privateer
-Ship of the Line
-Stealth Destroyer
-Tactical Nuke

New Wonders
-Apostolic Palace
-Cristo Redentor
-Mausoleum of Maussollos
-Shwedagon Paya
-Statue of Zeus

National Wonders
-Moai Statues
-National Park

Changed Wonders
-Sistine Chapel
-Stonehenge

Techs
-Advanced Flight
-Aesthetics
-Laser
-Military Science
-Stealth
-Superconductors

Tech Tree Modifications

Corporations
-Aluminum Inc,
-Cereal Meals
-Civilized Jewelers
-Creative Constructions
-Mining Inc.
-Sid's Sushi Co.
-Standard Ethanol Co.

Espionage

New Victory Conditions

Colonies

Scenarios
-Afterworld
-Broken Star
-Charlemagne
-Crossroads of the World
-Defense
-Fall from Heaven - Age of Ice
-Final Frontier
-Gods of Old
-Next War
-Rhye's and Fall of Civilization
-Road to War

The End

Depending on where you live, Beyond the Sword cost around $30.00 (USD!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoughtful Thug View Post
With the newly arrived announcement for two spankin DLCs, I have nothing to offer but my middle finger.

Downloadable Content For This Game
$4.99
Sid Meiers Civilization V: Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar II)
Cha-Ching!
$2.99
Civilization V: Cradle of Civilization - Mediterranean
Cha-Ching!
$2.99
Civilization V: Cradle of Civilization - Asia
Cha-Ching!
$2.99
Civilization V: Cradle of Civilization - Americas
Cha-Ching!
$2.99
Civilization V: Cradle of Civilization - Mesopotamia
Cha-Ching!
$7.49
Double Civilization and Scenario Pack: Spain and Inca
Cha-Ching!
$4.99
Civilization and Scenario Pack: Polynesia
Cha-Ching!
$4.99
Civilization and Scenario Pack: Denmark - The Vikings
Cha-Ching!
$4.99
Civilization V: Explorers Map Pack
Cha-Ching!

$7.49 for both Korea and Wonders of the Ancient World (or buy one of them for $4.99)

Sum total for all of the separate DLCs (with the exception for special deals or buying some of them in packages) is around $$$$ 49.39 US Dollars!!! Add that to the damned game ($49.99 US Dollars) =

$ 99.39

Topic should have been locked after this (the post has been cut)...

Before, the more you got the more you were happy.
Now, the more you pay the more you're happy.
Well actually that's the more you pay, the less you wait, the more you're happy. That's how things go now on each field and DLCs are just the video games application of this rule.

Seriously this post sums up the situation.
I think that DLCs should add non gameplay stuff, they should be "bonuses" for costumers (like unique visual models for a civ, etc...).

While I could understand new civs in DLC model (I didn't buy anyone), what I can't support is paying for 3 new wonders (cf last DLC). What will be next? 3$ for 3 new technologies? 3$ for 3 new resources? etc...

I don't care about more flexibilty for that price, I prefer 100 times waiting a few months and buying an X-pack with more stuff and half the cost (per new stuff), even if I'm not interested in 100% of the new stuff.
I don't like spain (in the game

) so I won't buy it 5$ for them being an opponent in my single player games.
But if for 20$ or 30$ I get new civs, techs, etc... and spain is included, I'll pay it.

PieceOfMind · Aug 17, 2011

puyo said:
Seriously this post sums up the situation.

Except that it's inaccurate (well, the quote from Thoughtful Thug at least). It should be closer to 91.90, not 99.39.

jtb1127 · Aug 18, 2011

Menzies said:
Actually, he's right... People did complain a lot at the time of the release of warlords saying that it was very shallow outside of new civs and the new mechanics were quite frankly poor and seemingly rushed. Actually, a lot of people said that the new mechanics in Beyond the Sword were rushed and buggy (which was very true at the time of release), but as with everything we tend to put things from the past on a nice little pedestal. It'll be funny in 3-4 years time when this forum is full of threads about how Civ VI is rubbish and couldn't hold a candle to Civ V and how Civ VI is a step backwards etc. '

That is assuming that the release of civ vi will be even worse than the release of civ v.
And in two years it only required five patches, some of which were rather minor. How many patches have there been so far for civ v?

Menzies said:
Beyond the Sword was good but I think some people give it a little bit too much credit these days. The corporations were a tad unbalanced and as such you could pretty much take over the world from them alone if you knew what you were doing. Spys had their problems too and a lot of people didn't like them. Not to mention the fact that the AI was never fixed in Civ IV and they were even more crazy than in Civ V. The only difference being they could hide behind their religion as an easy cure all for all confusing politics.

Even if the corporations were unbalanced in your opinion, you can't deny the extra layer it gave the modern age. And if the AI are crazier in civ iv than in civ v, how come
AI of different religions are still capable of being intelligent allies through the entire game, without them randomly back stabbing you? This is off-topic anyway but I have no complaint in discussing the games.

Menzies said:
Back on topic though they wouldn't be praised around here unless they made the most perfect bug free super game with a few new inventive and well balanced features, and as this has never happened before I doubt it ever will. What will happen is they'll release some new content at some point that will change the game in some significant way, get criticised and some 3-4 years down the track when they release something new people will point to it as the greatest achievement of mankind whilst condemning whatever they released at the time. Of course this cycle will repeat, but hey.

I am not sure how well this argument will work in my position, but everyone liked BTS. This cloud of anger that followed the release is non-existent.

Menzies said:
If you want to really be an anti-money grabbing tactics then you should condemn expansion packs anyhow, as there have been people who complained about them as content that "should have been in from the beginning". The only difference is that we're used to expansion packs now. Change is scary, but its a brave new world, and there's nothing to say they won't "charge us for patches" (that is, make an expansion pack) in the future. Have a nice day.

No one ever complained about expansions. And most expansions are visibly valuable.

PieceOfMind · Aug 18, 2011

jtb1127 said:
And in two years it only required five patches, some of which were rather minor. How many patches have there been so far for civ v?

Civ4 BtS never had all its bugs fixed. One only needs to look at the size of the unofficial patch to see that.

Naokaukodem · Aug 19, 2011

I voted I don't like. I don't buy downloads, however I would buy expansions. Just because I don't look for "more civilizations" or more of random stuff that I even do not use at 100% in the original game (for example there's a high range of civilizations I do not use in Civ5 vanilla), but more for new concepts that I have always hope the devs to implement.

MARDUK80 · Aug 19, 2011

Voted: I have purchased DLC for Civ5, and I like the current model.

DLC is a good, affordable way of keeping interest in the game at a high, whilst waiting for the (IHMO long overdue ) expansion.

Exactly my opinion too.

CYZ · Aug 19, 2011

Snoopaloop said:
You basically just agreed with the majority of what I had just said. Are you saying your opinion is wrong also?

current dlc = temporary content bonus, but not enough of a change to keep the game from becoming lackluster. A full expansion is needed for this.

We just disagree in the idea that people will ONLY buy the dlc if they are not tired of the game. I think many people will continue to buy it if they are bored/frustrated, which can be seen indirectly in the thread poll: "I have purchased DLC for Civ5, but I dislike the current model." We do not know each individuals reasons here, but I would believe some of these people continue to pay for each dlc civ just for the little amount of new gameplay.

oh, and just saying "you are wrong" to someone for their opinion makes you sound like a douchebag.

Moderator Action: Last line is considered trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

What we disagree on is the fact that people will keep playing without new game mechanics. Because I'm pretty sure most people won't and then the DLC sales will drop alot. Ofcourse there are always hardcore fans who will keep playing and paying no matter what (and most of 'em are on a forum like this one, and thus answering this poll) Still, most players will move on to other games if there is no new mechanics introduced. Thus an expansion is needed for DLC to remain profitable.

jtb1127 · Aug 19, 2011

PieceOfMind said:
Civ4 BtS never had all its bugs fixed. One only needs to look at the size of the unofficial patch to see that.

You wouldn't be able to find a completely bug-free video game.

Rex_Mundi · Aug 19, 2011

Voted: I have purchased DLC for Civ5, but I dislike the current model.

In theory I like that I get to pick and choose, what I'm most bothered with is the price. The map DLCs are terribly overpriced, and the civilization DLC are just overpriced.

The problem in my perspective is that the DLC model allow the publisher to squease the price, and I don't like that.
All the DLC I have bought have been on sale.

What I think they should do with the civilization DLCs is put them in the game so you can play against them even if you didn't buy them. First off I think that could help advertise them to less fanatical players. Second it would help with the savegame compatability.

Ellye · Aug 19, 2011

I own Civ5 but I don't own DLC.

The model itself isn't that much of a problem, but I find the prices to be a bit high. I will be happier when they release a DLC pack with all the DLC civilizations and a discount price.

I hope they do still release at least one expansion pack, though, as this is what will really add more replayability for me.

PieceOfMind · Aug 19, 2011

jtb1127 said:
You wouldn't be able to find a completely bug-free video game.

Exactly. Therefore more patches is generally a good thing.

DutchJob · Aug 19, 2011

About the cost of DLC vs. expansions like BtS:

Not the cost of added content is rising, but fiat currency is dropping in value.

Germnoble · Aug 19, 2011

I have all the DLC's. All of them.

I cant use them online, because of the way it's been set up. I'm really hoping they patch that out at some point, heck, someone might see the Civ in an online match and go, thats cool now that I see how it can actually work I'll buy it.

As far as the model, I dont mind it. I'm more likely to have 7 dollars lying around then 30, and you can gradually buy all the DLC when you have the money, some people just dont ever have 30 bucks to spend on add on content all at once.

Omega124 · Aug 19, 2011

I wish DLC was more in-line with how it was handled in Team Fortress 2. Have the huge updates for free (For TF2, new guns, modes and maps, for Civ 5, new civs and wonders), while have to pay for the cosmetic items that don't or barely effect gameplay (Hats in TF2, which you can get most of them for free if your patient enough, and the maps and possibly the scenerios for Civ). I mean, look at how successful the game is almost four years after launch, and tell me that isn't profitable. The hat sales give so much money to Valve, they literally give out the game for free now

apocalypse105 · Aug 19, 2011

Isn't the rule in the game industrie first finish a game and then add new contents to it?

Civilization 5 is far from finsihed and has still many bugs and wierd diplomacy fix this first and the DLC's are actually worth it because its a add on to a complete game

dexters · Aug 19, 2011

Things you get without having to buy a single DLC
-Major patching with new improvements/buildings/resources/building stat tweaks 10 months after release. These are free of charge.
-AI patching continues free of charge.

I understand what the DLC model is for, and frankly, in this call of duty/FPS dominated PC market, strategy games like Civ need to find a low cost 'bite sized' distribution model to find the audience.

Also keep in mind adding new Civs is now a lot more than some art assets, and I'd say the work involved has gone up exponentially since Civ3 days. The native voice recordings are something I support and the price for them isn't unreasonable.

That said, I'm a little concerned we'll never see an expansion with major gameplay additions. Even if it is digitally distributed with a small retail prescene, I'd still like to pay $30 or $40 for an expansion with a lot of content.

jtb1127 · Aug 19, 2011

PieceOfMind said:
Exactly. Therefore more patches is generally a good thing.

I see where you are going, but I think more patches in a shorter period of time would prove that the game was not so good when it was first released.

[offtopic]

apocalypse105 · Aug 19, 2011

IF you dont like it dont buy it they wont release a other DLC do it now!!!!

Stop complaining and just dont buy any more DLC from 2kgames...

I am against DLC it is just unfair against the customer it add new contents that change the gameplay and every gamer should get that for free its like a patch... I dont want to pay for that it should be free

No game should let you pay for patches..

Oh yeah with such a great community 2k forums civfanatic forum mods on the main menu adding contents that not every player can acces to is a really bad thing and has a negatif impact on the community as result less people play the game

And DLC's are just patches it adds new maps and civilization wich change the gameplay drasticly it olso adds different AI typs..

People buy a expansion pack because it changed the gameplay mostly because of new features like maps and civilizations/ nations(other games) Its a complete new game...

So the one's who dont have this lack this experience So if you buy like 2 of the 4 DLC's you miss some gameplay feautures which actualy may balance the game sometimes

Sorry I found this really a bad decission

And side note : First fix the game completly diplomacy is still non existing and AI is still bad. Good game companies allways finish their game before they make a new ones... Because each time you add new things those things can be unbalanced and need to be fixed to... And it becomes a endless cycle

Tambien · Aug 19, 2011

DLCs are stupid.

Good, now that thats out of the way, I'll tell you why.

DLCs are dumb. They are cheap marketing tricks, and I am ashamed of Firaxis for using them.

Let me point out the critical flaw in this marketing technique.

Money. I am perfectly willing to pay $50 for CiV. I am NOT willing to pay 50 dollars more just to get everything that SHOULD have been in CiV.

Yes for $50 game. No for wasting my money on new civs.

I refuse to pay $7 for one little civ and a dumb scenario.

Again, let me say that I am ashamed of Firaxis for stooping so low.

Bottom line, DLCs are stupid, and I decided to not buy the next iteration of Civ until I find out wether it has DLC or not. If it does, I am not wasting my money on it.

DLC Model Discussion

Choose the applicable option

I have purchased DLC for Civ5, and I like the current model.

I have purchased DLC for Civ5, but I dislike the current model.

I own Civ5, but have not purchased DLC. However, I like the current model.

I own Civ5, but have not purchased DLC. I dislike the current model.

I do not own Civ5, but I like the current DLC model.

I do not own Civ5, and I dislike the current DLC model.

I neither like or dislike the current DLC model.

Menzies

Chieftain

Drill IV Defender

Deity

Drill IV Defender

Millenary King

Prince

Toileteer

Deity

Prince

Warlord

Drill IV Defender

Prince

Warlord

Challenging Fate

Deity

Gods & Emperors

Deity

Deity

Theseus, Duke of Athens

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