The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game # 1 - The Zulus

kb27787 said:
Just sell her some of yours and chances are she'll vote it down.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I didn't have any to sell to her. I didn't pay attention to the proposals so I only noticed it right before the vote and all my salt was out or pillaged.

A few turns after taking Washington I was double DoWed by Shoshone and England (they hate any warmongering - I was constantly trying to bribe them to war other civs but they wouldn't do it). No problem fighting them off but its a real pain as they pillaged trade routes, etc. My economy is a mess even after building banks everywhere. Let's face it this is a horrible map - plains everywhere, no tiles to trading post like grassland or jungle, very few lux in the immediate area that other civs don't have (salt being an exception). No coast near me so no cargo ships (Washington was not coastal). The salt ban really hurt.

But now I have an even worse problem - crushing unhappiness (-27!!) from ideology pressure. I was third to get an ideology and Dido had Autocracy (83 tourism) and France had Order (40-something tourism) so I went with Autocracy. Was fine until England went Order (also with strong tourism), France became influential over me and then Babylon took Freedom (also strong tourism). So I think I will have to switch to Order as I am completely crippled now with no way to gain any happiness. Otherwise I was doing fine - almost at parity in tech with the leader, really decent cities. But I have to figure out some way to work through the nonsense. I'm betting that as soon as I switch to Order, Dido will propose Autocracy as the World Ideology and has the votes to pass it.

Civ 5 would be more fun at the Deity level if it didn't feel like slogging through quicksand most of the time. It's been 1 step forward and 3 steps back.
 
BTW here's my current save game. I'd be interested in any advice as to how to get out of the current mess. I am still at war with both England and Shoshone. I took one of Shoshone's cities (that they had forward settled all the way over near my capital), but they are still unwilling to make peace. I plan to take the Siam city that England took from them earlier and then sell it back to Siam - hopefully England will then accept peace. But I have to solve the unhappiness problem or I can't do anything.
 

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To Pilgrim: WOW! That is alot of LBs at York!! England amazed me in my game I put her in constant war and she lost York but she managed to survive total war the whole game. I never got to fight or really see her. She was very hostile to me the whole game. :)

To Red Rover: LOL mere Mortals... Im in that boat myself and I congratulate you on keeping up the warmonger instead of turle up and SV like myself. I let Carthage and my best friend in the whole game Shoshone, build up too strong for me to even want to deal with that problem. I had fun putting them at war at all times and letting Shoshone come through my lands to fight an unfair fight. Also, my main goal this game besides winning, was to take out France as early as possible. I really don't like him to build up and get strong. USAs MMs were easier to deal with rather than those dreaded Musketeers. Ofcourse like I said before everytime I shot an MM they grew stronger like the incredible hulk for some reason :).

To Nigel: I hope you get Paris! As in my game I did take over Paris but was unable to hold it because I was unwilling to wait to DOW USA. If I would of waited a bit longer and let Shoshone presss into him more I think I might hold Paris and get Philly, Boston and Washington. Perhaps even liberate Budapest which was really what I wanted to do but I started my war with USA too early for some "fun" instead of trying to play a more safe approach.

To KB: LOL! No Citadel bombs this time like in the # 38 Deity game. Basically him taking Philly and Boston was all the Citadel Bomb he needed. I never got to connect Washington D.C. to my empire. Maybe having open borders with him all game didn't make him such a douche as you like to call him. :)

To Grendeldef: TOO FUNNY!! Mex-Amer. Worker!! It is nice to see people can still make fun of each others culture and not take it seriously. This world is getting out of hand on its sensitivity. You can't even make fun of people with alternate lifestlyes anymore without being exiled... oops did I just do that without even trying? LOL again. Coffee/ Liberty plan... I've done that many times as well. How about the screw you family/tradition approach? I've also done the: I ate too many "special brownie" plan and have no idea what to build next approach! Pilgrim was right! We do need you too keep playing for these amazing write ups you give us!

To Aibeit: Nukes are fun but messy. I usually don't use them but I did get to this game which is nice!

To Hicks: Im usually a one and done type of player. Kinda like a sniper; one shot... one kill. I do see the learning pupose for multiple tries though. Im glad you got to use that boot camp strategy. I, myself, have just learned about it against the CS's, I used to use it all the time with barb camps but that is not even near as strong as using it on a CS. I never got to get hardly any promos on my XBs and I never upgraded them all game. However I did play about 20 games of GOTM87 because it was quick and fun and I never started a game in the modern era before. I dunno why but that game was fun to play over and over again for me.
 
glory7 said:
@Pilgrim:

1. omg for those longbows...
2. It seems that AIs backstab when you take 2-3 cities. I just try to make sure that everyone is at war with somebody so that they backstab with denouncement, not DoW.
3. Attached t90 save file (I think it was liberty finisher timing)
Click to expand...

1. Aren't they lovely? I was looking at them and thinking how much I'd love them to be mine. AI can't do anything useful with them anyways. As scary as it might seem, this attack is not a real threat. She has 2 melee units... The funny thing, though, is that we made peace not so long ago, when she had literally no army left. I need to remember to check her production in London. 1 unit per turn is so cheaty... yet so useless...
2. This is good point. Do they backstab less if they are at war themselves? I buy a lot of wars, but don't really make sure everyone is at war all the time. I tend to neglect everyone who is irrelevant and on deity, I guess, that's not the brightest idea.
3. Thanks! :)

Grendeldef said:
Didn't actually have to time to play but did it anyway because I wanted to looks at Pilgrim's pics.
Click to expand...

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. :p


Fluphen Azine said:
To Pilgrim: WOW! That is alot of LBs at York!! England amazed me in my game I put her in constant war and she lost York but she managed to survive total war the whole game. I never got to fight or really see her. She was very hostile to me the whole game. :)
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She wasn't much of a factor in my game either, just annoying. And longbows... so many longbows in wrong hands... Life hurts sometimes. :D
 
T147 update

I've taken the caps of America, Siam, Babylon, and England. In fact, I left each of them with one crummy city. As I've been at constant war I have simultaneously kept Carthage and France at war with pretty much everyone on the map. Poc refuses to trade with me anymore, but Napoleon and Dido only ask for my newly acquired luxuries to keep fighting. I'm pretty sure the party is going to end soon because Napoleon is using his open borders to surround my capital. I've got him and Dido at war, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't fought a single battle against her.

How this game is won in less than 150 turns is beyond me. To me it seems like I am flying through these capitals, but I look up and see I've already surpassed glory7 in the amount of turns it took him to complete the game. Happiness has been a bit of an issue this game, so there have been some delays where I could have taken a city, but had to wait it out.



Spoiler :


Fluphen Azine said:
To Hicks: Im usually a one and done type of player. Kinda like a sniper; one shot... one kill. I do see the learning pupose for multiple tries though. Im glad you got to use that boot camp strategy. I, myself, have just learned about it against the CS's, I used to use it all the time with barb camps but that is not even near as strong as using it on a CS. I never got to get hardly any promos on my XBs and I never upgraded them all game. However I did play about 20 games of GOTM87 because it was quick and fun and I never started a game in the modern era before. I dunno why but that game was fun to play over and over again for me.
Click to expand...

Normally I only want to play a game once, but this game is really doing it for me. I don't think I've ever learned so much about warfare in a single game.
 
hicks53081 said:
You messed up on posting that screen cap. I want to see what happened.
Click to expand...

Huh, thought I had fixed that, but apparently not... don't have the Screen Cap anymore aparently, I'll see if I can get one out of the autosaves [pissed]

Condensed Version of what happened:
Basically went up to Artillery without any major conquests because I couldn't go 10 turns of peace without someone DoWing me, had to keep defending myself... took Washington when I got Artillery. Pocatello and me both picked Authocracy and I kept getting him to DoW the others along with me, taking down 1 civ at a time so it ended with me and Pocatello the only two civs left in the game (except for some crappy cities from Carthage, America, Siam and England I didn't bother with).

I then DoWed Pocatello when he started building Spaceship parts and immediately nuked a city of his that had 5 nukes and 3 Bombers in it to get rid of them, which he took as a queue to nuke almost my entire side of the map - but he nuked the cities, so enough of my units survived to wrap up the game after taking out his army with a couple of well-placed nukes of my own. Game ended with me in control of all the capitals and most of the map covered in Fallout (which neither of us seemed to bother clearing), and Ulundi down to 11 Pop because of the multiple nukes it got hit with. :mad:

Fun game anyways :D
 
The Pilgrim said:
Show me yours and I'll show you mine. :p
Click to expand...

Are we still talking about the game?

Anyway, few more turn between matches and just as I attacked Dido I suddenly felt the same feeling which previously turned me away from domination games - the logistics behind the order in which the troops are selected is created by Gandhi as nothing but nukes should move around. Moreover, 4 turns after I joined Rammy's peace jamboree to destroy Carthage Washington decided to have more important things in life than death - probably started Ivy League college football or something but it resulted my already narrow pathways to be surprisingly effectively blocked.

Machinery T96 after which the task was slightly easier as the need of meat shields was severely reduced but as I'm trying to adjust the new UI I accidentally deleted few units. The lazy labour wasn't much of a deal but after executing logistics+range Xbow I ordered a retrial & resurrected him by means of reloading.
Carthage fell T119 at which point I made white peace. We had an interesting equilibrium as she had a healthy navy while I had failed in swimming school and she had eaten all her horses and I had troops getting bored there was nothing to shoot at. I'd have much rather taken another city as a peace settlement but that would gave only happened after several rounds of pingpong with Carthage and the freakin' game wasn't even invented yet. Only Stonehenge worth mentioning here.

Meanwhile I paid instigated a war between Washy & Nappy and joined this gathering as soon as my troops find their way to a closest border. Not the optimal bunch for a threesome but I wasn't looking for permanent relationship. This French revolution ended with me holding Bastille & surroundings while Washy was executing aristocracy nearby - the royalists didn't have a chance.

Pocahontas were mocking me behind the GW so my next move would be to take some names & scalps. The English, Babylonians & even the unthankful liberated French peasants joined this choir showing their bad sportsmanship. I think I'll have a word with them sooner than later. After hundred turns of actively pointing the personal faults of neighbouring sovereigns Rammy finally had enough. Luckily I picked up the phone that day so I wouldn't miss an English breakfast in ten turns. Just enough time to start a war with Poca. Luckily or unfortunately, depending whether one's farms are on my or on the Babylonian side of the border he sits in between us but I'm sure he won't mind me walking over him towards that afternoon tea with Lizzy. as an extra supportive measure I paid Poca to DoW Nebby and Washy to DoW Poca - I just love these warm international relationships.

I'm not totally sure what the AI is doing apart from skipping school - renaissance at T122 is pathetic though I didn't even bother to check who it was. I'm 2nd or 4th depending the which bureau's disinformation one is supposed to believe either way I really don't see a possibility of reaching Alpha Centauri from this world.
Militarywise I'm somewhere between 2nd and 4th which really shouldn't worry anyone. I could've built/bought more troops but I've too lazy to properly operate even with the existing ones so cash is piling which is an oddity. I might even even buy few zoos which surely is a novelty.

Pyramids are still available and apart from Washington the wonders are fairly evenly spread. I included nationals in my no wonder policy, too bad I already built the NC - totally not required for this.

Few pics to illustrate things.
Spoiler :










 
lots of people having fun with this map - tried my luck with it (used Honor policy)
here's the first 150 turns on youtube playlist link

Need I say beware of spoilers ? (Its a full recorded playtrough - obviuosly much more spolilerish than a few screenshots)
 
peddroelm said:
lots of people having fun with this map - tried my luck with it (used Honor policy)
here's the first 150 turns on youtube playlist link
Click to expand...
Spoiler :

Im going to watch right now! Thanks for making an LP... I've been in withdrawls for some time now. I was about to start making LPs again just because they all have seemed to of dried up. It looks like you have a few LPs, that will give me something to watch when bored:).The only thing is they are alot of work with recording, compressing, uploading...etc. When I make one it takes hours away from my game time and Im like, "Damnit!! I could be playing instead of uploading right now!" Now I see the reason for 2 PCs lol. Oh yes and you have commentary which is a must have for me when I watch these. Its no different than watching a baseball or football game really IMO.

Ooooh Honor First huh very fun to watch that! Also down the right side of honor instead of left, man I got alot to learn!

For players that are a bit new, notice how he puts a turn into the farm before mining moving to the North Salt instead of the East Salt working his way back down!

You DOW 2 civs at once after meeting other civs. I always thought that was too much warmonger hate and I usually only DOW 1 civ. Im going to have to start changing up my early strategy to do this from now on. My game always suffers from low workers. Im gonna start making it a point to get more and more from now on. So you lose the scout and the Babylonian slave (ofcourse your going to get it back from the camp most likely) and get the DOW warmonger hate! Was it worth the try? Im guessing it was cause I see your plan with Honor is to be at war pretty soon anyway.

Pretty slick using loan gold to get two archers out about the same time. Also interesting not insta dowing valletta and waiting and dowing them when they are under protection! Your just like the AI you get down to 1 health and survive the attacks! Not that it matters, Im sure, however you take the 45g instead of the 2gpt(60g). Either way works fine I was just suprised. Amazing, you play with no fear of a lurking barb in that forest. You just move your settler with no protection :).

Hicks Says: It's much safer since he adopted honor which shows where barb camps are located. That's about the only time I'll move a settler unprotected.

I understand that but that is no gurantee that some wayward barb is just there. Im sure your right though that the odds are heavy in his favor.

Since Im pretty new to CS XP farming I like how you show how to do it with a scout and 3 archers, thanks! A quick question... How does Valletta not have any army by turn 70, some damn Military CS... can't even get out 1 archer! Finally... a CB at turn 72. Party is Over, Party is Over! Too Funny! "Welcome to the Valletta Training Grounds!"

Peddroelm Says: "That was my first attempt at Farming XP from CS."

Pretty darn good first attempt and a CS that is protected to boot! You are right sometimes CS's build alot of troops and sometimes not. It always suprises me when a Military CS builds so few. Nice to see you live with the mistake of that young CB too!

To Glory7: Yes, Yes... worker scan. I've known about that for a long time always forget to use it. I just need to slow down in my games. Alot of times I just rush my moves.

You have Siam on the run now... Take no prisoners men! Im on turn 100 of your game, Nice LP... good action. Only bad thing I notice is you shoot alot of units down to the red. It seems you have it timed just fine the few units I seen go red didn't even get to insta heal. I was under the understanding that its good to let them be in the yellow so they can't insta heal, ofcourse either way works just fine it is not like your losing this war. Where are the War Elephants? Not a single one yet? Also no units inside of cities for your +1 cult and +1 happy! Not like Im telling you what to do you are doing far better than I do in warfare, I just am enjoying the LP and commenting on the game. You make me want to make another LP so you can point out all all the mistakes I make and trust me they are 10x the amount you make! Looking back I notice your over the unit limit so I guess it is not like you want 2 more scouts just for the bonus inside your cities. Understand all my comments are like when I watch a football game on T.V. and am yelling "why didn't you throw it to that guy on the left? He was wide open!"

If you put that missionary in the city do you get the bonus or does it have to be a military unit only? Once again, great LP, that was worth the 2 1/2 hrs I spent watching :) Looking forward to the finish!
 
Fluphen Azine said:
Amazing, you play with no fear of a lurking barb in that forest. You just move your settler with no protection :).
Click to expand...

It's much safer since he adopted honor which shows where barb camps are located. That's about the only time I'll move a settler unprotected.
 
@Fluphen Azine
Spoiler :

- ideally you go left side honor if you can guarantee peace up to ~T100 and are able to finish honor before that.. Not an impossible feat but on this crowded map (few barb camps to kill/farm) with no culture CS and no culture partheon/religion I didn't managed ... Having the left side when training vs CS would help a lot ...

So I played safe - right side first - the discount on upgrading units is quite massive and one of the redeeming qulities of honor ..

With Valleta - was not my intention of pissing people off - Dowed and grabbed the worker first change I got - consequences be damned (I would've prefered they were not protected because I delay cosntruction and too early war could set me back) .. If I would've DOWed them on sight when I've first meet them grabbing that worker later would've been much more difficult - much easier to steal the worker when you are at peace..

and about the settler - had pretty big fog of the war vision - no barb camp notification - wasn't 100% safe but pretty safe ..

about the XP farming vs CS - that was my first attempt inpired by glory7's thread :) .. Don't know why it was so slow to build units - CS are pretty random - some get huge armies some don't .. I would've prefered it to have more units - easier to farm IMO .. It did eventually build 2 pikes and a composite ..

need to be military units - civilian units don't count for for city bonus ..
There is a second episode up but I suspect is far from the finish - only two capitals down so far ..
 
If you worry about barbs, you can use "worker scan". choose a civilian unit (worker or settler), and hold right mouse button and target any tile (fog of war tile). If there is no unit, it will show that you can get there by n turns - if not, there is a unit.

of course you cannot identify what it is (could be other civ's units, for example), but if you find that there is no unit around the area you are going for, it would be helpful.
 
Yeah I use that, too. Usually to check tiles behind when I move over a hill or into a forest tile, though.
 
peddroelm said:
@Fluphen Azine
Spoiler :

need to be military units - civilian units don't count for for city bonus ..
There is a second episode up but I suspect is far from the finish - only two capitals down so far ..
Click to expand...

Oh you bastard putting up another video already huh... ok time for me to be a couch potato and watch some more :)

Nice Job Hicks!!

You make it look so easy! Pretty funny... " I am ready for this slaughter!"

Also Very Good Job to DINGLEBIRDY and CREW for making this possible. It really seems like we have more interest than once was thought. I hope it keeps going this strong!
 
After my turn 147 update I declared war on Napoleon right away. His units just ran away, so I had to actively hunt them down. Going through Lyon was a b*itch. Every tile was either marsh, hill, or I had to cross a river. It took a while to trim the units down between Lyon and Troyes. Then I moved through the rough terrain into Paris which took an equally long time. Almost 20 turns after taking my last capital of London, I was finally able to take Paris. His city was such a happiness drain that I actually let him take it back once in order to get the size down. The full on final capture didn't come until t169. I normally would have called for peace, but I needed to get into Orleans in order to get to Moson Kahni.

Spoiler :


And here'e what I won!



After taking Orleans, I let it raze down to 1 before annexing. I didn't want to lose out on that gw bonus. In the fog to the east of Orleans was the impressively sized Te-Moak. I had stolen chemistry from him a little bit earlier and decided it was cannon time. It took about ten turns and some losses of life to take the first Shoshone city, but I was rewarded with Hemeji and Pisa. Then it was off to Moson Kahni which had an 80 defense. My cross bows didn't stand a chance. In this battle I lost three cannons and one musket before capturing on turn 194.
Spoiler :

The spoils of my labor. There were two other wonders that weren't shown in this pic because it cutoff, but Terracotta and Taj Mahal were in MK as well.


If you look at gpt you can see that I negotiated 400 gold plus 77gpt peace treaty. That should help.
Spoiler :


And here's a picture of the victory progress.
Spoiler :



It's taken nearly fifty turns to capture two capitals. I really hope I can get into Carthage a little bit quicker. She is still using trebs, but I can see she has rifles already. That's okay though because by the time I start this war, a lot of my impis will be upgraded. She still has the biggest army but I'm gonna change that really quick. This will be interesting though, because she has frigates and from what I can tell, her lands are all coastal. The roads are already built, so I am ready for this slaughter.
 
Carthage sucked. She owned NY, so I couldn't go straight at Utique. Instead, I fought off a million units coming from the east. The way I started the war was by declaring then citadel bombing her land. That gave me Uluru and access to across the river. Once I built a bridge it made it so I could place a cannon and shoot Utique in one turn. I lost several cannons that way. Also, the hill directly east of Uluru was a big strategic advantage. She kept dropping rifles there and I could never quite get over the hump. Eventually I killed off enough of her units to surround Utique from all land sides. I captured it then lost it then got it back for good. As for Carthage, I had to rebuild the road leading to her doorstep, and once I did, I cannon spammed again. I think it took five turns of mainly cannon fire, fighting off frigates, and a several lost units to take it down on turn 212. Carthage was much easier than Utique. Oh, and she only had Temple of Artemis. Anyway, here are the pics. Thanks for the game.

Spoiler :



I liberated NY in the peace deal.

 
peddroelm said:
lots of people having fun with this map - tried my luck with it (used Honor policy)
here's the first 150 turns on youtube playlist link

Need I say beware of spoilers ? (Its a full recorded playtrough - obviuosly much more spolilerish than a few screenshots)
Click to expand...

That's awesome. I'm interested to see how your game goes.
 
In the original post there is now a spreadsheet link to the finishers. I think I have everyone listed that has finished except Aibeit who's picture didn't show up, so I don't know what turn he finished on. If I somehow missed your finish, let me know.
 
With so many posts and action in this thread I want to be able to read at least some of it without ruining the game. So I guess I should play this :)

Peaceful Liberty to t100
Spoiler :


Obviously salt and wheat make for a very strong start, but we are a little cramped for space. I don't think I've played a Pangaea with so little elbow room -- at least there is good stuff in every direction. Opened Liberty to make sure I can get some solid spots. With so many Warmongers I don't want to rush and get caught of guard either. Early bribes to start Nappy <-> Washington and Nappy <-> Pocatello wars. Poc is losing.

t55 with cities in place



I landed the Pyramids and went full Liberty. So far so good.



I could fight a war soon, but I don't want to lose any of the happy trades I've got going ... DoF with Washington. Not too worried about Dido. Walls built next to Nappy ;)



I think all routes are open from here. Only 6% behind, 2nd in food, 3rd in hammers. Aqueducts up everywhere.

 
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