Cerro de Potosi

Carazycool · Mar 14, 2015

If you find Cerro de Potosi early, and found your second city next to it. To what extent is it useful to work the 10 :c5gold:

tile immediately, rather than growing? And if you work the tile, how is that money best spent at that juncture of the game? (turn 30ish)

What other considerations are to be made? Perhaps you should get internal trade routes up ASAP so that the city can start to grow while still working the 10 :c5gold:

tile. Maybe the money can be spent buying things in that city to help with growth. (granary, water mill, etc.)

Any thoughts?

BlackWizard · Mar 14, 2015

Carazycool said:
If you find Cerro de Potosi early, and found your second city next to it. To what extent is it useful to work the 10 tile immediately, rather than growing? And if you work the tile, how is that money best spent at that juncture of the game? (turn 30ish)

What other considerations are to be made? Perhaps you should get internal trade routes up ASAP so that the city can start to grow while still working the 10 tile. Maybe the money can be spent buying things in that city to help with growth. (granary, water mill, etc.)

Any thoughts?

Let it grow first. Size 40 is usually big enough and you can start working that Podosi

reddishrecue · Mar 14, 2015

Carazycool said:
If you find Cerro de Potosi early, and found your second city next to it. To what extent is it useful to work the 10 tile immediately, rather than growing? And if you work the tile, how is that money best spent at that juncture of the game? (turn 30ish)

What other considerations are to be made? Perhaps you should get internal trade routes up ASAP so that the city can start to grow while still working the 10 tile. Maybe the money can be spent buying things in that city to help with growth. (granary, water mill, etc.)

Any thoughts?

Get a good food foundation to keep your city growing. Once you have your city growing, it would be fine to finally work Cerro de Potosi if possible. Dont worry about working Cerro de Potosi because one has to focus on needs first and then obtain what you want.

Erneiz Hyde · Mar 14, 2015

BlackWizard said:
Let it grow first. Size 40 is usually big enough and you can start working that Podosi

Grow to 40 THEN work the tile? I'll just pretend you meant 4 and agree with that.

Also, internal trade route, yeah. Probably same story with any other non-food natural wonders. Early gold can be used for the usual rush buying libraries, settlers, caravans, workers, upgrading to CBs, or buying tiles if someone settles in your face. A gold natural wonder simply makes those come faster.

Hammer Rabbi · Mar 15, 2015

ive honestly never been confronted with this, settling and working Cerro. but i generally wouldnt justify it til i at least hit civil service (or got Aqueducts, probably from tradition finisher). that can offset the lost food from the citizen you moved to Cerro. id kind of treat it like a gp slot. but i bet it would be a burden when you need to work it just to stay green, haha.

consentient · Mar 18, 2015

I'd only work it for 10 turns or so with OWN, to help get a religion, and then probably again after the city has grown properly. But it's a terrible wonder, really. They made the NW so unbalanced. There is a mod, btw, called Balanced Natural Wonders or something, so the bad ones have improved yields.

Carazycool · Mar 19, 2015

Grand Mesa seems like the worst natural wonder. 2 :c5production:

and 3

. It would only become worth working if you are Izzy, and even then, it's only slightly better than a mined Gems tile.

I wish every natural wonder was powerful and had its own niche. Maybe I'll try that balancing mod....but i never use any mods.

HorseshoeHermit · Mar 19, 2015

It's a lot of gold, but, you're gaining it for what? What are you gonna do with that gold? Work it for 31 turns and pay down a Worker hurry, so you can improve more tiles to get ignored by all the citizens you don't have because you weren't working food?

Money pays for armies, and that's later. And only in actual games, not ones with idiot A.I.s with hardcoded bailouts for their expectedly terrible business decisions. In the game by the book, money's actually hard to find.

reddishrecue · Mar 19, 2015

consentient said:
I'd only work it for 10 turns or so with OWN, to help get a religion, and then probably again after the city has grown properly. But it's a terrible wonder, really. They made the NW so unbalanced. There is a mod, btw, called Balanced Natural Wonders or something, so the bad ones have improved yields.

That's good info, balanced wonders? I'll try that out because I hardly used any mods at all.

Acken · Mar 20, 2015

Cerro is aproximately worth the same as a mine (without the pantheon) if you buy medieval+ stuff with it (so that the ratio is decent).

So you work it like a mine.

khaciv · Mar 20, 2015

Cerro is aproximately worth the same as a mine (without the pantheon) if you buy medieval+ stuff with it (so that the ratio is decent).

So you work it like a mine.

_____________________________________________________________________

Could you explain this a bit better? How do you calculate the 'gold to hammer' ratio
(without any wonders/social policies)?

And does this change when u play on a different speed then normal? I think i read that things get relatively less gold expensive on epic and marathon.

Acken · Mar 20, 2015

Well you simply divide Production by gold cost. EUI does that automatically by the way.

Early items have terrible ratios like 15% to 20%. But starting at medieval you start to get 25% ratios and better.

Gold also often has better % bonus than production. A market is 25% more gold while a workshop is 10%.

So for example if you want to buy a university (660G) or build it (160H). 660/12.5 (Cerro+market) = 52.8 and 160/3 (mine) = 53.33. Both give approximately the same number of efficiency.

Another way to get the same conclusion is to see that university has a 24.24% ratio so you get 0.2424 hammer for each gold. Cerro+Market being a 12.5 gold tile would lead to a 3.03 hammer tile, hence a mine.

khaciv · Mar 20, 2015

much appreciated,

and thank you for your vids; i've enjoyed them very much

Redaxe · Mar 22, 2015

Acken said:
Well you simply divide Production by gold cost. EUI does that automatically by the way.

Early items have terrible ratios like 15% to 20%. But starting at medieval you start to get 25% ratios and better.

Gold also often has better % bonus than production. A market is 25% more gold while a workshop is 10%.

So for example if you want to buy a university (660G) or build it (160H). 660/12.5 (Cerro+market) = 52.8 and 160/3 (mine) = 53.33. Both give approximately the same number of efficiency.

Another way to get the same conclusion is to see that university has a 24.24% ratio so you get 0.2424 hammer for each gold. Cerro+Market being a 12.5 gold tile would lead to a 3.03 hammer tile, hence a mine.

I never thought about it this way before - so Cerro de Potosi is basically a mine or half the value of King Solomons Mines.
The thing about this wonder that doesn't make sense to me it is is supposed to be a mountain of freaking SILVER - where is the silver??? You think they would give you a free silver luxury resource for having it in your borders & allow it to benefit from Religious Idols & the Mint.

Anyway I digress - the best wonders to work off the bat are Great Barrier Reef, Sri Prada, Uluru, Lake Victoria, Mt Kili & Maybe Rock of Gib (if there are no 3 food tiles to work) because they give you enough food to keep growing in the meantime.

The others its best to wait until your population growth is not being hampered excessively. That said there are exceptions. You could settle on King Solomons Mines and work that just to build a granary & grow that way. Although it may still be better in the long run to get to size 2 before doing this - i don't know how the maths would work out on that.

Acken · Mar 22, 2015

On the other hand gold has a better flexibility than hammers. You can hoard it for later use, you can use it for more than units/buildings. Also its value get a lot better with Mercantilism and BigBen (and Skyscrappers/Mobilization), and this increased value can be based on the amount you hoard since way earlier turns.

These advantages are way harder to quantify but they make Cerro better than a mine in the end. Although the question was when to start working it so I'd say approximately as if you were working a strong mine.

lolzipepz · Mar 25, 2015

You only need about 8ish GPT to maintain a maritime CS ally, so if you can get to ally status (say by completing a quest) this wonder could be used to maintain it for a pretty significant net food gain over working a food tile. Just supplement the city with a food caravan ASAP and you'll barely notice the lack of a worked tile.

Thing is, in AI games gold is just too easy to come by through deals, lowering the relative value of this wonder. It seems a bit more valuable in multiplayer, though it still isn't among the strong natural wonders.

Later on it can be thought of as roughly 3 hammers per turn if I recall correctly, with the added bonus of being a bit more flexible. If nothing else you can scrounge up enough to rush buy key buildings like Universities as soon as the tech comes in.

Tiber4321 · Mar 25, 2015

You can't build Machu on Cerro de Potosi, fyi.

Cerro de Potosi

Carazycool

Warlord

BlackWizard

King

reddishrecue

Some dude on civfans

Erneiz Hyde

Warlord

Hammer Rabbi

Deity

consentient

Domination!

Carazycool

Warlord

HorseshoeHermit

20% accurate as usual, Morty

reddishrecue

Some dude on civfans

Acken

Deity

khaciv

Chieftain

Acken

Deity

khaciv

Chieftain

Redaxe

Emperor

Acken

Deity

lolzipepz

Chieftain

Tiber4321

Prince

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