Help Me Not Suck: Professor Shaka's War Academy

State of the World at 300 AD:



I'm thinking Calendar next to get some happiness in here and possibly make a run at the Mausoleum. We've got some plantation resources already in our land that we can use, and we have marble, of course. We're still sort of in a rough patch, but we can build Wealth now, and any new city we build is going to benefit from the trade route income.

Here's the Netherlands:



Old Zululand:



And New Zululand:



The Great Lighthouse is going to net us one of two things: either we'll get a wonder that will help the scads of coastal cities we're going to build (and have built), or we'll get some failgold at a time when we could really use the cash.

Here's the financial adviser:



Still kind of rough, but better. In hindsight, I think going Currency first might have been a stronger move, but as I said, Isabella teched Literature this round, so the Great Library wasn't as sure a thing as I'd thought.

Foreign relations, a.k.a The Great Brahman Love-Fest of 300 AD:



Chuck's going to have to go, I think.

And tech trades:



The good news: Currency is a monopoly right now! The bad news: so is everything else! I'm hoping to get CoL from Izzy once somebody else techs it or we get up to Friendly. She's obviously not going to trade us Theology until she finishes doing What Isabella Does Best(TM) and building the Apostolic Palace. The good news? Since she's Hindu and we're Hindu and we have more cities and more land, we shouldn't have much trouble taking up residency. Pope Shaka, anyone? :p

So that's where we stand. I sort of crashed us in the middle, but as you can see, I think we're still on the cutting edge. We've got a strong core now that's only going to get stronger. Calendar next will get us more happy, but we're going to want CoL for Caste System sooner rather than later. Then I'm thinking we run scientists, get some military techs, and take Chuck down later on. I'd really like the Great Wall sooner rather than later, but we can scarcely afford what we already have.

Here are some things I'm mulling over.
* Is it finally time to switch over to Organized Religion? I was hoping to save the Anarchy for when we get CoL online and can switch over to Caste System. I'm hoping to run Theocracy down the road for extra XPs and diplomacy bonuses with our wingnut friends from across the mountain, so keep that in mind as well.
* How does iron affect the dotmapping? We definitely won't found as many cities next round (we doubled in size this round!), but Not Really Filler Anymore Plainstown definitely deserves a look. I also think getting those gems for more smiley face would be nice, plus that town will be a commerce monster that will easily pay for itself and then some.
* Do you think we've mollified Monty for now? He's at Pleased and Chuck is his worst enemy. I suspect the next round will feature our Aztec buddy bashing his head against those Protective archers for a little while, but who knows?
* What should I do with all of those riverside grassland tiles in Ulundi (which are, yes, now mostly uncovered)? My gut says that keeping Ulundi as a strong production city means building watermills there, but it feels like we should do SOMETHING with them before Machinery, especially as we'll have a means (one way or another) of upping our happy cap shortly.
* Have I screwed everything up? Is the game now totally lost? Like I said, I think I sacrificed a few productive rounds to make our core particularly strong. We could build Wealth in a few places for a while and crank up the slider, at which point I think we're really going to start rolling. But if I just buggered it all up, let me know.

Save is attached. Thanks!
 
Nodwengu actually looks like a perfectly reasonable city to get at that point. You were about to start on GLib, probably NE as well, and might end up trying for the Mausoleum or Sistine in the reasonably near future. Good time to hook up Marble, even if it means taking a relatively weak city otherwise.
 
Nodwengu actually looks like a perfectly reasonable city to get at that point. You were about to start on GLib, probably NE as well, and might end up trying for the Mausoleum or Sistine in the reasonably near future. Good time to hook up Marble, even if it means taking a relatively weak city otherwise.

Yeah, the thing about it is that we already had marble--I didn't take a screenshot of it, but you can see it in Nongama in the SotW post, and you can see the worker quarrying it in the Holy Crap kwaDukuza Has Marble shot. I hate having a big gap in the middle of the empire like that, so I wanted it closed off as best I could. Probably could've waited until the end of the round, but it'll be up and running a lot quicker now, and I think running scientists in a lot of places saved the tech rate from over-expanding.
 
@MyOtherName: Re: chopping forests. FWIW, I’m going to agree overwhelmingly with Gumbolt on this one. The point about the one time bonus is that it can create a snowball effect - earlier access to cities, wonders etc. brings forward the date at which you get their subsequent benefits.
You're not agreeing with Gumbolt; you're arguing a different point entirely. I agree that chopping those forests now for something useful (e.g. workers and settlers) would be very good idea.
 
Guys, for what it's worth, most (but not all) of Ulundi's forests are chopped now and were spent on Settlers, garrisons for those Settlers, and--to a lesser extent--the Statue of Zeus. :p
 
I think you did fine with expansion, and i don't know that I dislike keeping that barb city - it's got sugar, gems and 2 lakes, along with the corn to share.

a) You didn't have to disband units
b) you got to currency

Switching to OR really depends on how spread your religion is. I don't much mind switching ASAP. I'm also not sure you should switch to caste yet - I think slavery can still help you get basic infrastructure up.
 
Have I screwed everything up? Is the game now totally lost? Like I said, I think I sacrificed a few productive rounds to make our core particularly strong. We could build Wealth in a few places for a while and crank up the slider, at which point I think we're really going to start rolling. But if I just buggered it all up, let me know.

The game is still totally in the bag.

One thing that you should be tracking more carefully is the demographics screen. That would be a good picture to put in each of your "State of the World" posts.

The various pictures have made it clear that you were woefully under staffed. Ondini is half way through the food bar and still doesn't have anybody improving the cows, or the fish, kwaDukuza is at size 3 with no improved tiles ( :smoke: ). Jute is building an Ikhanda when there are two unimproved fish right next door, are you kidding?

etc.

Not fatal - you're too far ahead right now.

But slooooooooooooow
 
I'm going to have to disagree.

The forests aren't limiting anything. The only thing their presence represents, at the moment, is an unspent one-time :hammers: boost.

What is the purpose of the granary? To get a big population? Unhappy citizens aren't productive. To whip? Grassland hills are better. The granary needs to be finished just before the happiness cap gets lifted -- there is simply no purpose in having it sooner. And if the happiness cap is only going up by one, it's a tradeoff between having 30 :hammers: now versus 15 :food: that won't be useful until the next time the cap is lifted.

What is the purpose of the library? To get your first GP? He has other cities that can do that -- uMgungundlovu is a perfect candidate for running two scientists permanently once Nobamba takes the pigs.


I suspect what you are really thinking is "I think you shouldn't be using Ulundi as a :hammers: capital -- I think you should use it as a :commerce: capital!" If so, then say that.

As slow as he's expanding, you might be right on that. But if I was rexing, I would probably prefer to take advantage of the high yield of the capital to power the expansion for the time being and cottage up other cities.

Sure if he plans to use capital for rexxing and building workers that is possible. For me at 600bc a capital should not be covered in forest like that. That could of easily been 2-3 more workers by now. Or perhaps 2-3 settlers. Did he have a purpose for keeping the forest or did he just lack the workers? The 2 things go hand in hand.

In terms of the economy I do see the capital more as a commerce base. Unless he plans to move it and try to use Ulundi as a production centre.

I look at the save and I have to ask myself where is the commerce and science going to come from at 1ad?? Does he plan on using specialists or is there a plan for cottages? If neither why is he not building galleys and killing more AI. ;)
 
Kudos for the write up! I thought Shaka was particularly harsh executing the craftsmen who erected the monument known as the SoZ...when, by adding a beard and toga to their illustrious leader, they only committed the crime of depicting Shaka in ceremonial dress. :D Let’s hope Shaka displays the same ruthlessness to chief Chuck when the opportunity arises.

Moving onto the game, I’d say you’re still in OK shape. Your rate of expansion was fine – learning to deal with the financial strains of expansion is one of the challenges of Civ. IMHO, one of the ways of doing this is to ensure that some of your cities grow big / vertically, such that they generate sufficient commerce or beakers to help pay for the expansion.

This is why getting happiness on this map is particularly important IMHO – it’s the main factor limiting the ability of your commerce / science generating cities to grow. It’s also why the rounds achilles heel was the inability to address this issue - and why I was hoping Shaka would be much more enthusiastic about settling the wheat / fur site on the NW coast. IMHO, Shaka needs to overcome his aversion / allergy to fur and settle that site ASAP for extra happiness throughout the empire. Getting calendar will also help...but look to get your cities to grow onto more commerce tiles (ie. cottages) and / or start working more scientists (especially in Amsterdam) to boost that tech rate.

Talking of happiness, was there a reason why you elected to tech masonry – but then not settle the stone to build the mids? I ask because the early happiness boost from representation would have been really handy here IMHO. Any reason also why you skipped on The Parthenon having settled the marble? Getting one city to build The GL (here in Amsterdam) and another to build The Parthenon (perhaps in the capital) would increase the number of great scientists you can generate, and increase your ability to tech.

Looking quickly at the save, I’d suggest the other area needing improvement is your opening builds in a city. As it stands, a number of newer cities are currently building libraries and other buildings, before they’ve gotten monuments (to pop borders) and granaries (for faster pop growth). FWIW, I’d suggest that, unless you need military units or things like workboats, you generally want to begin city builds in this post rush era by (i) whipping a monument when your pop gets to size 2 (to pop borders ASAP) and then build / whip a granary (remember: Shaka is expansive) - before you build libraries and other buildings. The idea is to get your cities to their happy and / or health cap faster, so they’re working as many tiles as possible.


@MyOtherName: I obviously mis-read you post. I read your comment here to imply that you were not in favour of chopping forests to assist the REx:

The forests aren't limiting anything. The only thing their presence represents, at the moment, is an unspent one-time :hammers: boost.

my thoughts on the matter mirroring Gumbolt’s reply here:

For me at 600bc a capital should not be covered in forest like that. That could of easily been 2-3 more workers by now. Or perhaps 2-3 settlers. Did he have a purpose for keeping the forest or did he just lack the workers? The 2 things go hand in hand.

Please accept my apologies. :)


Shadow to 325 AD attached.

Spoiler :
The main difference is that, by building the mids and settling the furs to raise the happy cap, my cities have grown to gain access to more hammers and commerce / beakers.
 

Attachments

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For what it's worth, both the Parthenon and the Pyramids are still up for grabs. The AI seems to be doing badly at grabbing wonders--Izzy's got Stonehenge, Justin's got the Oracle, and Chuck's got the Great Wall, but there are still a whole lot of wonders on the board. I'd like to spend a lot of this next round focusing on a military build-up to take Chuck down and start rolling over the other side of the mountain, but going peaceful builder for a bit longer (maybe while we tech to Maces and Trebs) could pay off, especially as much good production as we have.
 
Isnt chuck pretty far away? he serves you better as a world villian to unite hindu hatred than as a defeated people.

At least until you finish settling your land.

calender is fine to tech. Depend on trade potential, Music for Great Artist Golden age and a civic switch is a fair move. I also love forges and you do have +2 happy with them so Metal casting can be nice.

consider a generous tech for gold trade to monty. You can never have too many diplo points with Monty and he is allready behind.
 
Statue of Zeus? Why? There is no war imminent where it would help/could damage you. And those hammers could have been put into the mids. Representation
And you should whip more. All three libraries currently in the queue could have been whipped quite some time ago.
 
Isnt chuck pretty far away? he serves you better as a world villian to unite hindu hatred than as a defeated people.

At least until you finish settling your land.

Statue of Zeus? Why? There is no war imminent where it would help/could damage you. And those hammers could have been put into the mids. Representation

Agree on both of these. You have plenty of land you have yet to expand into and a natural chokepoint with the mountain that will basically prevent anyone from attacking you until astronomy (If I remember correctly, the AI is glitched such that if it is on the same landmass it won't build ships to send invasion troops regardless of whether that mountain is there or not, and therefore whether or not it can reach you.)
I don't really see the value in building SoZ to completion. May have been better off stopping construction to use for failgold, though I can understand not going for Pyramids since you're not Industrious and stone isn't in your borders (yet).
 
The only reason I got the SoZ was to keep the AI from building it and causing problems later since I'd like to win by killin'/vassalizin' fools. It was cheap with Ivory, too. Probably not the best build in the world, but hey, that's why we're here! ;)
 
I look at the save and I have to ask myself where is the commerce and science going to come from at 1ad?? Does he plan on using specialists or is there a plan for cottages? If neither why is he not building galleys and killing more AI.
I second this. I always like to know where I'm going with my economy. Cottages? Then have lots of workers building lots of cottages. As they level up to hamlets and villages, the extra command will pay for your expansion. Or, specialists, in which case at this difficulty, the Pyramids would've been a great idea as others have said (instead of SoZ, which I don't think I've ever built... you can compensate for it by upping culture in the future if you need it, whereas the mids provide benefits which are more unique & useful right now). Some people think it's not cool to talk about CE or SE nowerdays (cottage/specialist economy) but I find that focussing on one of them prevents me suffering from a lack of any focus on my economy.

Oh, and I lol'ed at Wilhem's son :lol: Thanks for the good read so far.
 
I played around for a bit of a laugh on this and managed to grab music with the Oracle. I suspect a CS or higher tech oracle grab would be very possible. I don't think I took it seriously enough but this map on noble offers a lot of choice on strategy.

Interestingly it is quite suprising the tech discount from Noble to Immortal. On immortal Ah takes nearly 15 turns. On noble about 10 turns.

No need to apologise learner gamer. I am far from the best player on this forum and I am not always on the ball. I need to try finishing a few games on here. The key thing for me is reading maps and on higher levels getting the right strategy and sticking to it.
 
Re: war. Agree with the other posters above. IMHO, the map lends itself much, much better to gunpowder (or later) war for a number of reasons.

this map on noble offers a lot of choice on strategy.
Agreed...IMHO, this is a great map for nobles. It really gives the ikhanda a great chance to shine.

I am far from the best player on this forum and I am not always on the ball.
I know exactly how you feel...some of the stuff I see gamers able to accomplish sometimes has me wondering if I'm playing the same game. :D

As an aside, I’ll be stopping my shadow here, because, as VoU notes above, the game is already in the bag. Look forward though to more great reading from the OP. :)
 
Hmm...I think I should try going up to noble again. Lets hope I don't get a warmonger next to me :p

Sam the odds are in your favour on Noble. You tech faster than the AI. They start with a minimal amount of techs. They start on warriors too. As long as you build 6-7 decent cities and form some sort of economny you should be able to reach a military tech before the AI so you can wipe them all out.

It is a good level for learning the game basics but ultimately the AI should be quite beatable. Try rushing an Ai with 7-8 warriors at the start. The capital will soon fall. Barb cities too with just 2 warriors defending. On higher levels barb cities start with 4 archers!
 
It is a good level for learning the game basics but ultimately the AI should be quite beatable. Try rushing an Ai with 7-8 warriors at the start. The capital will soon fall. Barb cities too with just 2 warriors defending. On higher levels barb cities start with 4 archers!

Funnily enough, I just did this last night in an offline game as Freddie thanks to a forested plains hill in the capital. Justinian was just south (his warrior showed up in the third or fourth turn), so warrior-rushing was easy. It's very doable at Noble. I'm likely going to try upping the difficulty in my next game just because the hive-mind here has been very helpful; applying the lessons here to my non-Shaka games helped me beat my previous high score (an ultra-cheesy Rome game on the Earth map).

Going to try to play the next round with the goal of further settlement rather than military expansion. Tech path will start with Calendar as discussed, and I'll probably dip over to CoL to open up Philosophy for bulbing and getting an early start on the Lib race. Priority will be the cities that open up new resources (spices, furs, gems), then I'll get Non-Filler Plainstown up and work on settling the south.

Thanks, guys!
 
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