War...what you think would be best for culture victory

Hi,
I'm playing my first BNW game, no mods, on emperor.
I'm with Russia, aiming for a cultural victory (let's not argue here, is a personal chalange) but keeping my options open in case something goes wrong and win by other means. Also I added a pretty exaggerated number of city states and I'm allied with ~70% from my continent. I'm at Architecture technology (trying to build the wonders it gives)
I own the SE part more then 1/4 of my continent (5 cities). North of me is China, doing pretty bad with 3 cities (prior war) one of them just built very close to my border. On my W is Rome which just attacked China taking it's most western city then signed peace for which China gave it's small city I mentioned remaining only with the capital. On far W, behind Rome, there's Indonesia and they just proposed me to go to war against Rome after Rome signed Peace with China...I selected "give me 10 turns". Also to mention Rome's most NW city before it's war with China has the only natural wonder on continent as workable.
My most SW city was Attila's who I eliminated after he attacked me, kept it long as puppet but now is annexed, so I'm now a bit warmonger and everyone is cautions about me.
So, Rome is a bit to powerful and surrounding me now to be left in this situation. How you'd go in this war on the cities Rome took from China and the one with natural wonder? Conquer/puppet, liberate, leave alone? Mind that I'm looking for the best outcome for a cultural victory, not want to completely eliminate Rome, also Rome and China prefer order as I intend to go too.
Thanks

---I----Rw--RC---C----
I----R---------------RC
---------M------M-----
I-----R------M---------
-----------------------
I----R---M----M-------

I- Indonesia
R-Rome
Rw- Rome's city with natural wonder
RC- Rome cities taken from China
C- China
M- me (Russia)

Best outcome for a culture victory is to keep your rivals (particularly your nearby rivals) in check.

From this stylized map, am I correct that your army could get to the Roman capital without having to take any other Roman cities? If so, gear up your army and when the 10 turns comes up, beeline for Rome (but be sure to eliminate Rome's army before getting into range of the city itself).

Under your treaty with Indonesia (the "give me 10 turns" option creates a treaty to go to war) you won't be able to make peace with Rome for some number of turns (10 turns sticks in my mind, but it may be longer -- it's been a while since I accepted a 10-turn DOW treaty), but take out Rome's capital first, if you can. If the Roman city with a NW is otherwise compelling, then take it too. Then be sure to liberate one or both of the Chinese cities that Rome took -- that should substantially eliminate Warmonger penalties for taking Rome and the Roman NW city.

You should then be free to chug on to a culture victory.

Thanks for your answer. Why are you so positive about taking the city of Rome which is the middle "R"? What would be wrong by not doing that, also would be a disaster if Indonesia does that? My plan was to just go north, eventually let Indonesia and Rome kill their armies in a battle for Rome then latter come to better terms with Romans by freeing what Indonesia may conquer now.

Capitals are always well located, usually with better than average allocations of luxury, strategic and bonus resources. Accordingly, it is usually a terrific city to control (and later annex) and the AI rarely does all that well after losing its capital. On the other hand, taking too many cities generally leads to warmonger hate and bad diplomatic relations. So, if you can take Rome and the Roman city with the NW and liberate a couple of Chinese cities, you get the best of what Rome has to offer, while minimizing warmonger hate.

Here, your warmonger hate from Indonesia will be muted by the "common enemy" factor, and liberating 2 cities to China will do wonders for your rep with both China and Indonesia. The end result may be that only Rome displays concerns about your warmongering, while you get to keep what may be his 2 best cities.

all roads lead to Rome

Didn't got to play much yesterday till the war starts but Romans just beat me at building the Sistine Chapel making my decision easier: more money from canceled wonder for updating units and now I know I want the city where they built it...whichever is that.

You know, Russia's culture under Catherine the Great rivaled Paris? Culture as Russia is not a stretch.

I would also take Rome and I would tech up to Rocket Artillery, just in case.

Hi,
Another question about the same play so I post it here. Btw, I got Rome in that war and I lead towards culture victory, the only other player working on it seems Indonesia in my continent.
One of the allied city state gave me a Merchant of Venice which I discovered I can use to buy city states even as Russia. Is a good idea to buy one in the other continent to establish a bridge? Unless you tell me is really a bad idea I want to do it for role play purposes so any advice about it after I get it?

I think you have made a mistake to let Rome take over China. Never ever let Rome occupy more cities because of his boost will make the production faster and new cities will come into productivity really soon.
I have a game with Brazil when I have 2 aggressive Huns and Rome next to me. They conquered 2 wonder building Civ Ottoman and Ethiopia and my biggest mistake was to let them take out 2 civilization easily. Since they had no competitors now, they were ready to go aggressive on me all the game (seriously all the game) From turn 80 to about 300, I always have enemy in my border. With the Great Wall, I can survive mid game but late game was terrible even though late game was the time when Brazil started to boom.

So, the only to win this game is through diplomatic and religion. Since they spend most of their gold and production for their military, secure some alliances with CS and go for standing army tax. You should do this mid game or you will regret for late game. Then spread your religion, get them unhappy so their soldier will be demoraled (suffer attack penalty). Build up Great Work, wait until they were really suffering (50 turns of unhappiness) to start some mission on them. Make sure you have to out tech them. Send Giant Dead Robots against tank, X com for Infantry and you will have late game with all the great work from China and Rome capital.

Good luck

And one more thing I want to point out for cultural victory with this type of game. You should adopt Autocracy because it have some good boost for your military strength, which helps you to defense and goes aggressively on Rome when needed. Moreover, it has the 50% tourism boost when fighting the same enemy. Given Rome serves as a Warmonger, all the AI will hate Rome and they will declare war on Rome. Make alliance with them, secure some trade route, diplomat to make sure Rome is embargo and his luxury resources are no longer in effect. Since Rome spend most of his time for military unit, a standing army tax will hurt him badly and he cant even have good culture. So, without the boost, you can influence him quite easier with your tourism.

I hope it helps

Can be massively important in seeking a cultural victory to take the enemy's capital. Not only can you steal their great works and wonders - you reduce a huge part of their culture output as well meaning you catch up to them quicker with your tourism.

Thanks for the answers but at far as it matters (@hpamddmd) Rome is now out...2 cities left, capital is my puppet. Regarding cultural victory...is a personal challenge, I want to do it despite not having a civ that recommends it and continued the game even if my only workable iron as Russia is on conquered Attila's Court.
But now my question is how to approach the second continent for the cultural victory, as I play on continental huge. So please give me some insights strictly on this.
Yet one thing that I get the feeling I got wrong after reading comments here is the fact it seems I need to take on capitals for cultural victory. Is it relay so? I thought it would be a peacefull game.

LukeHro said:

Thanks for the answers but at far as it matters (@hpamddmd) Rome is now out...2 cities left, capital is my puppet. Regarding cultural victory...is a personal challenge, I want to do it despite not having a civ that recommends it and continued the game even if my only workable iron as Russia is on conquered Attila's Court.
But now my question is how to approach the second continent for the cultural victory, as I play on continental huge. So please give me some insights strictly on this.
Yet one thing that I get the feeling I got wrong after reading comments here is the fact it seems I need to take on capitals for cultural victory. Is it relay so? I thought it would be a peacefull game.

Click to expand...

You can do it either or both ways. Generally its good to be friends with civs so you can get open border treaties and send trade routes to them. However - if there is a civ with lots of tourism and wonders and is pumping out lots of culture then sometimes your only option is to go to war to take them down to size by stealing their great works, wonders and cities to reduce their culture output.

Looking at the OP, and how I'd play it for a militant Cultural Victory:

- I would agree to go to war against Rome in partnership with Indonesia
- I'd try to set it up that I'd get the capital, as it's typically a nice city with good resources (and maybe Wonders)
- Liberating the Chinese would help offset warmonger penalties, while still neutering Rome harder
- If possible, puppet the rest of Rome.

About that second continent:

What's on my mind with puppeting the rest of Rome is controlling territory. It sounds like your continent has been ravaged by early war. Go hard for Archaeology and hopefully a lot of artifacts ended up in your (large) territory. Turning what you can into Landmarks is worth a lot of Culture, and a lot of later Tourism.

When you meet the second continent, try and be friendly for a while before utterly ransacking as many artifacts as possible. The effect is twofold. First, more tourism for you. Second, less culture for them. The diplomatic hit isn't THAT bad, and the overwhelming power of owning 70%+ of the artifacts on the board is huge.

Do I need to place artifacts/works in some city in the new continent to influence the civilizations there? Or that won't matter and is good enough to have those in the home continent?

The only thing that matters for location of your great works is the themeing bonus from they get in wonders and museums.