Deity England continents game (early war)

Sorry to jump in into this thread with a save file, but this is exactly the game I was about to start, and saw this thread, so I thought I'd post the start file if people want to play along to. I wasn't planning on necessarily going for domination, but it might be cool to try out some of the tactics that have been discussed in this thread.

It's a continents map, standard size, with 8 civs on Deity level. All victory conditions are enabled. Double salt and double wheat tile in the first ring, though there's also a lot of ugly tundra around. Opening map is shown in the spoiler below:

Spoiler :


Have fun!
 

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Not bad at all. :) I'm almost sold. Are there any neighbors though? At least one?
 
I'm finally improving my game, I think. I was able to raze my first neighboring town around turn 70, then take the capital around turn 100 or so. I'm currently amassing an army of CBs about to upgrade them all in 4 turns and then move into the next civ but doubt I will be able to clear the continent before I meet others. How does that work again if I meet the other civs? Do they still know I'm a warmonger if my victim settled a new 1 pop city at the last mintue to keep him in the game? Or do I get to start fresh?

This time, when I moved my warrior, I noticed that natural wonder that gives 2 food 2 happiness and 4 faith. I moved my settler inland and settled on a hill next to a river, with the wonder in my 3rd ring. I got a very early culture ruin which I used to open tradition to help me expand my borders, then bought the tile the wonder was in and started working it around turn 8. I got the natural wonder pantheon to double my FPT to 8, then managed to get the first religion by about a turn. I thought about going Holy Warriors but then realized that CBs cost 160 faith, and that's just too much! I took Pagodas and Initiation Rites. When I later enhanced it, I added the +1% production per follower belief. I think I like settling inland a lot better, actually. I had access to a lot of high production tiles like copper mines. I was able to make a CB in 4 turns with production focus, which helped immensely. I then went Liberty, as suggested.

My neighbors were Venice, Spain, and the Shoshone. I DoW'd Pocatello early when I saw a worker left unattended at his borders. He didn't seem to respond. Then, about 20 turns later, he marched a sneak attack around to my capital which landed right when I finished construction and upgraded my 4 archers to CBs. I was able to fight his troops off, then gave chase, razing his first city, puppeting his second, then taking his capital. This put me at -9 happiness, though, which I've been trying to recover from since (time to build colleseums!). I'm saving Venice for last to give him time to build a couple of WWs for me. :)

*This game I went for a religion because of the wonder, but really, I don't even think it's worth it to try for a religion in liberty domination. The biggest benefit of a religion is being able to faith-buy great people. The best social policy trees to finish for faith-buying are tradition, rationalism, and aethesitcs, none of which we are getting when going liberty-commerce/exploration.
 
I have tried 3 starts today. One went well, 6 CBs at turn 64 and it was easy to kill enemy troops.
I even got some swordsmen at ~85 but once again the first city was too heavily fortified. Eventual fail.

The single biggest thing I have noticed is aquiring the early workers. When I meet the first AI, I just take their worker immediately. It will take another 25-30 turns before they can really retaliate, and by that time I should have at least 5 achers.

One thing though - is it actually possible to take a 2-pop city using only archers and a single warrior on deity? On my current game 2 Civs forward settled me immediately, turn 35 and all land is gone :/

...edit: I was actually able to get my longbowmen up at turn 108 so I'm starting to learn too :) This time it worked surprisingly well with only one starting city. At first I felt handicapped by two forward-settling AIs and no more room for me, but that allowed me to get the NC and NE up very quickly. So if your first city location is good, don't worry if there's no other good option; by turn 100 you can be controlling two other capitals potentially.
If only the AI knew where to build those darn cities :/ This time also I had my first AI capital build the great wall on my exactly before the assault, but luckily there was still line of fire.
The luck issues are definitely there, no matter how you play, but at least it is possible sometimes to deal with the Great Wall with CBs...


...edit; what is it with these AI Civs? Once again, my FIRST conquest target finished the Great wall at exactly the turn I DoWed them !!
 
TurboJ said:
I also wonder if it makes a difference that I play on raging barbarians. That seems to occupy me quite a lot during the earliest 30-40 turns.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's probably making this unnecessarily hard.

Re: taking cities with archers on Deity: It's not worth it. I start attacking the AI with archers, but not the city itself. I wait until I have composite bows to attack the city. And even then I don't take the city immediately. It really is best to wait until about t70 unless scouting has revealed you have 5 AI opponents on your continent. With only 3 (a balanced map) you have more time, so it's better to start later.

It sounds like you're learning a lot and getting better! CB rush isn't easy. Also, re: 2nd city, you should be going for the free settler first with Liberty. With a culture ruin, that's a settler on t29-31, meaning you should be able to beat the AI to a 2nd city. Without a culture ruin, you're looking at t38-40, so there is a risk of not getting a good expo spot. And that does impact getting your army up somewhat. But, if you don't have room to expand, that means the AI is making your conquest easier on you, in the long ruin. Close neighbors are easy victims. If you only have room to build one city, then you might consider capturing a city on t70 to annex. It's not ideal, but at least your NC will be a cheaper build. :)
 
I'll give this map a shot. :)

Looking at the start position, I hate tundra, and I generally hate polar starts for naval domination. But, the tiles are actually close to ideal for early warfare. There aren't three rings of good tiles, but salt/wheat/forest is great for the early game, and my capital usually doesn't get very big anyway in those games. I'll attempt this after I finish my taxes. ;)
 
After taking the Shoshone capital and reducing him to his last 1-pop city, I started to heal my units in preparation for my next opponent, Spain. She started it off with a DoW against me, and I held her off with my CBs as I waited the few turns to finish machinery. I was able to upgrade about 3-4 CBs to longbowmen. I finished Liberty right after and used the finisher to get a Great Prophet, which I used to spread my religion to get the money from Initiation Rites so I could upgrade the rest of my CBs. I thought I was in a pretty good place as I started my advance in. Unfortunately, there was a lot of rough terrain around, which definitely neutered my longbowmen a bit. Then, trouble arose as Spain had upgraded to Tercios (UU Musketmen)! Those Tercios were able to deal about 75 HP damage to a longbowmen in melee combat and took about 6-7 arrows to kill! Combined with limited visibility and the AI sending 3-4 Tercios out of the fog to surround a longbowmen, I had to retreat.

How do you deal with musektmen? Do you just hope to clear the continent before then? It's definitely worth taking your neighbor's UUs into account too and not warring with them when their UUs are at their best!

In other news, OMG England's double spies have been amazing this game! I was stealing advanced techs every 3-4 turns.
 
Musketmen: I would say you have to have some sort of melee meat shields. When they have level II terrain promo and are fortified, they can last a couple of turns even if the enemy is one tech level higher. But the problem is keeping these melee guys alive, in my games they tend to die when going in to take the cities... But maybe three melee troops and you can alternate them on the fore/back of the line. Once you do get your own musketmen, it'll all be easier.
 
I have been practicing this approach and I'd like to ask a couple of questions about how things work once you are just about to clear your own continent (turn 120-150ish)

* If you do clear the continent completely, how do you get money? It can take a while before you get any outside contacts for trade.

*How do you work the diplomacy once the other civs are revealed? For example, I had cleared my whole continent on my current game, so no negative diplomatic modifiers active when the other civs came along. Still one of the DoWed me almost immediately and I wasn't ready for their navy.
Still winning as far as I can see, but things like this slow you down. As for whom to conquer next - the global bully sounds like a good plan?
 
TurboJ said:
I have been practicing this approach and I'd like to ask a couple of questions about how things work once you are just about to clear your own continent (turn 120-150ish)

* If you do clear the continent completely, how do you get money? It can take a while before you get any outside contacts for trade.

*How do you work the diplomacy once the other civs are revealed? For example, I had cleared my whole continent on my current game, so no negative diplomatic modifiers active when the other civs came along. Still one of the DoWed me almost immediately and I wasn't ready for their navy.
Still winning as far as I can see, but things like this slow you down. As for whom to conquer next - the global bully sounds like a good plan?
Click to expand...

I've never found that to be an issue, frankly. The other continent usually finds me pretty quickly. But, money is definitely an issue. Generally when I'm going for domination I choose a +gold founder belief. Your cities shouldn't be getting too big so +2/city or +100/city are best IMHO. +1/4citizens only pays off when your cities are size 16+, IMHO, because of the lower yield early on. +2/city is marginally better if you get your religion earlier, but I prefer lump sums early. (+100/city) If you have 6 cities on your continent (4 capitals + 2 expos) that's 600gold by t150. If you spread your religion by t100, you get slightly more, but you get it later. If you can spread your religion by t70 (difficult) then it's better.

The way I work diplomacy is:

1) Try to establish at least one friend while building my fleet.
2) Get as many lux/lux trades as I can, preferably with the civs I plan to attack last.
3) Sell everything I can to a friend for money to upgrade galleas or buy frigates.
4) Pay everyone to attack everyone, then DoW everyone I have a trade with, to get my happiness luxuries and gpt back.
5) Rampage.

It really depends on circumstances though. Lux/lux trades aren't as valuable as paying someone to attack someone. But, the extra happiness is nice for fast domination, because the best strategy is to attack two targets at once. If you capture the last two capitals on the same turn, you don't pay any unhappiness for either. But prior to that you have happiness concerns. Given that you've got 4 capitals (on average) to take, the plan is: take two at once, then take two more at once. The lux/lux trades really help with the first two. However, if you go into exploration, you can build up a ton of excess happiness with lighthouse/harbor/seaports, and then you can devote all your trades to get money from friends and pay people to DoW each other. This is another reason to keep your cities small. It's all about production. Size 8 is a decent limit for most of your cities. At least one of your capitals should have a religion with happiness buildings, (hopefully yours) and you can spread it around. Between that, and exploration and coliseums, you can bank enough happiness to capture multiple cities at once without going below -9. (It's fine to be at -9 though)

I agree, DoW the global bully first (after you pay him to DoW everyone else) and if possible, denounce and wait a turn after he dows everyone to attack. It seems to help, could be my imagination. A lot of diplomacy factors take one turn to kick in, I've noticed. But just because you DoW'd him first doesn't mean you have to capture his cities first. If you can get a cheap deal, pay him to DoW as early as possible. That'll move multiple AI fleets out of position, if you're lucky.

Also, (Goddess of Love) +1happiness/cities with 6citizens can be a good pantheon if you can get your faith elsewhere. An uluru start for example. Tricky but can be worth it in ideal circumstances.
 
Speaking generally (not only England with their twin spies),

When you play domination, do you, in the mid-game, simply beeline the military techs, or beeline education?

I find that even if I play Babylon, I'm behind in tech before Education.
Also, I don't see how I could reliably found a religion without beelining Philosophy for Temples right away. Sometimes even if I get a religious NW, I still can't quite get a religion up. Or a religious CS of course, but that's hardly guaranteed.

Culture / tourism is beating me a lot also. Perhaps I'm trying to grow my cities too much and not working the specialists enough. My usual approach is to put first specialist up at 10 pop, second at 12 or 13, and then one more every 2 or 3 pop. Maybe I'm waiting too long?
I'm just thinking my tech progress will be too slow if I don't get a decent population..

Mostly this play style is fun, but what I really don't like is the times when you have to take the AI's cities that are in really bad spots and not have the option to settle where you would. Maybe I could settle more cities as long as I just started war and built the NC before settling a 3rd and 4th city...

One more thing though: How would this strategy adapt to Fractal or Pangaea? It would be likely you had to wage world war most of the time :)
 
I beeline education if I'm starting the war with Artillery, otherwise I beeline military techs. For Pangaea I either beeline The Wheel for chariot archer domination, or Construction->Philo->Machinery for CB domination. If Arabia/Mongolia, Chivalry. Water maps are a special case because you need to beeline Navigation.

On Pangaea or Fractal you just beeline units. Fractal sucks though, because it can be continents, islands, pangaea, no way to know. For Fractal I would probably beeline Construction->Philosophy and focus on heavy scouting. If scouting reveals not all civs are accessible on my continent, I'd then go for either Machinery->Navigation or Education->Dynamite->Navigation, depending on the terrain/map type. Fractal and Shuffle are the "random" maps. And I hate them. ;-)
 
Chysp said:
Sorry to jump in into this thread with a save file, but this is exactly the game I was about to start, and saw this thread, so I thought I'd post the start file if people want to play along to. I wasn't planning on necessarily going for domination, but it might be cool to try out some of the tactics that have been discussed in this thread.

It's a continents map, standard size, with 8 civs on Deity level. All victory conditions are enabled. Double salt and double wheat tile in the first ring, though there's also a lot of ugly tundra around. Opening map is shown in the spoiler below:

Spoiler :


Have fun!
Click to expand...

Here's how my attempt is going so far:

Spoiler :

So, I got off to a good start. First 3 ruins were Animal Husbandry, spearman upgrade and a slightly late culture ruin. Used the spearman to pull off a double worker steal from William on ~t16. Had to pillage twice AND use my promotion to get him out of there alive, but it was worth it for the equivalent of 620g... Also got a late faith ruin to secure Earth Mother.

That's when things started to go badly... I scouted the continent. This is close to a worst-case scenario map for continental domination IMHO.

The bad:
1) Only two opponents. This is really bad for many reasons. (*See below)
2) One of them completely blocks off the other, preventing me from executing my favorite early rush strategy. (**See below)
3) By t90, zero barb camp quests. Zero.
4) Both opponents have *inland capitals*.
5) The only suitable nearby coastal expos *do not have a unique resource*.
6) Poland is protected on all sides by rough terrain.
7) Only William wants to be my friend, and until he gets Civil Service I can't move through to attack Poland.
8) 5 opponents to kill with Frigates is bad.

The good:
1) There is a gold hill, a silver hill and a 3-salt coastal expo hill which form a nice diamond-shaped empire with ideal city-connection road lengths.
2) My gold-hill city has Mt Fuji?

Other things that made this run-through worst-case scenario:
- Pyramids went on t38. (I would have finished on t40, which is EARLY)
- One of my neighbors got the great wall
- Pagodas were off the table when I got religion
-

*Why 2 opponents on your continent is bad. It may seem like this makes it easier to clear your continent, and it is. But:
a) Your science costs are determined by how many people you've met who've researched the same tech
b) Your ability to trade multiple copies of a resource for gpt or luxes, especially with early rush, is limited by number of neighbors you're not currently at war with.
c) If you clear too quickly, you have no one to tech-steal education from.

**The 2-neighbor early rush strategy for maximum science:
a) Forward-settle on one guy who I plan to attack first
b) Make friends with the other guy
c) Set up one round of science caravans with the friends before switching to CS cargo ships when the friendship expires on ~t90 and I double-cross and attack him.

So, I decided to play through anyway, despite the worst-case circumstances.

Normally I'd go with a 2-city start, both coastal. In this case, since I only have two opponents to fight, and I have to delay my attack run anyway, I went with a 4-city start. Settled on silver, settled on gold. Normally I'd attack William first, but, because he wants to be my friend and set up trade routes, and I need those beakers, I'm waiting for open borders to attack Poland. In the mean-time, I've sent a worker around the long way to chop forests around Warsaw. My long-term plan is to focus on science and delay my attack until longbows. Since I only have two opponents to take out, this is reasonable, despite the delay, and it ensures that I'll still have someone to steal education and astronomy from when the time comes. Plus, there will be universities and hopefully wonders when I capture. This will probably still be a slow game, so I expect I won't finish pre-t200. I'll be lucky to finish with frigates/gatlings. I may have to invest in Dynamite as well.

I'll put some screenies up when I get a chance.

T14: Double Worker steal :D
Spoiler :




T99: Peace treaty with Poland just expired. 5 turns until Machinery. I moved my army down there and I'm gambling that I can take Warsaw in 5 turns, upgrade to longbowmen with the pillage/capture spoils, and wipe out William right after I steal Education. Notice I'm at 70 beakers, which is not at all bad for a Machinery rush. That's because 16 of those beakers are from trade routes with William. Time to attack! :D
Spoiler :



 
Cromagnus said:
Here's how my attempt is going so far:
Click to expand...


Spoiler :
I ran this game 3 times myself, the first one I read your earlier post and was impressed and tried it straightway. I realized that this map was going to be a problem to get a domination victory around t200 myself but I was mainly just trying this to practice the archer/comp rush with promotions you wrote about in an earlier post. I stole 2 workers and was at war on turn 8 with William the whole way through. I built scout, mon, 3 archers and pyramids. 5 workers is crazy for my style of game but I was trying something new. I used the archers to farm barbs and shoot williams troops for a bit to promote. I built the 2nd city from free settler on the silver. The river and land proved a good spot for my foe. I may have built too many troops, more comps, 3 spears and a few others down the road. After razing that city I moved to the cap where i was practicing shooting the cap instead of taking it to promote. I was having some problems losing a unit here and there and poland decided to vulch and I miscalculated take over of cap and poland vulched it. I played 20 or so more turns but saved it around t 120 or so. I could still win this game but it would come much later and take a different strategy than what is suggested.

I tried the game 2 more times (not getting the pyramids) but because I knew of where the ruins where and the map it was hard to get an honest feel for it. 2nd attempt I decided to get poland and the dutch into a war and I managed that for a resource and 2 gold. That pretty much made William have no army left when I attacked straight to the cap which I took fast and used his second city for the upgrades. This run I built the triangle formation which I just read about as well. William built petra in second city so I would keep that as well giving me 5 cities.

3rd attempt was about the same but I lost interest because I had too much knowledge so Ill try again from a random start.

So what I learned from this is that you can plan to rush the cont and take it over but the map is going to dictate what and how you can do things as usual. You are most likely going to have to adapt and overcome and think fast on your feet as you change your plan. Honestly though after a few runs at this I can see how easy it is to clear the map using Cromagnus's earlier posted strategy!
 

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Fluphen Azine said:
Spoiler :
I ran this game 3 times myself, the first one I read your earlier post and was impressed and tried it straightway. I realized that this map was going to be a problem to get a domination victory around t200 myself but I was mainly just trying this to practice the archer/comp rush with promotions you wrote about in an earlier post. I stole 2 workers and was at war on turn 8 with William the whole way through. I built scout, mon, 3 archers and pyramids. 5 workers is crazy for my style of game but I was trying something new. I used the archers to farm barbs and shoot williams troops for a bit to promote. I built the 2nd city from free settler on the silver. The river and land proved a good spot for my foe. I may have built too many troops, more comps, 3 spears and a few others down the road. After razing that city I moved to the cap where i was practicing shooting the cap instead of taking it to promote. I was having some problems losing a unit here and there and poland decided to vulch and I miscalculated take over of cap and poland vulched it. I played 20 or so more turns but saved it around t 120 or so. I could still win this game but it would come much later and take a different strategy than what is suggested.

I tried the game 2 more times (not getting the pyramids) but because I knew of where the ruins where and the map it was hard to get an honest feel for it. 2nd attempt I decided to get poland and the dutch into a war and I managed that for a resource and 2 gold. That pretty much made William have no army left when I attacked straight to the cap which I took fast and used his second city for the upgrades. This run I built the triangle formation which I just read about as well. William built petra in second city so I would keep that as well giving me 5 cities.

3rd attempt was about the same but I lost interest because I had too much knowledge so Ill try again from a random start.

So what I learned from this is that you can plan to rush the cont and take it over but the map is going to dictate what and how you can do things as usual. You are most likely going to have to adapt and overcome and think fast on your feet as you change your plan. Honestly though after a few runs at this I can see how easy it is to clear the map using Cromagnus's earlier posted strategy!
Click to expand...

You are most likely going to have to adapt and overcome and think fast on your feet as you change your plan.
Click to expand...

True, true, true!
 
I need much practice to be able to clear my continent before meeting the other civs. I had a start with England with 2 salt and 3 wheat on a plains coast. South of my initial position is mt. Sinai on a nice coastal spot with 2 salt and 1 wheat near it.

I settled both, but went tradition (might have been a mistake). Dido is huddled on a C shaped peninsula which is littered with jungle and forest. The choke point next to Carthage is 2 tiles wide - in other words, this city will only fall to galeons or SOTLs.

East of my position is poor hapless Napoleon who decided to annex a city state. An act which pissed the hell out of Sweden and Poland. I allied with the swedes and poles and even got ~200 gold to attack France after Sweden DOW-ed him (since I was planning to do so anyway and he was my most immediate target).

The funny thing is that when I want to play a peaceful game as Babs or France I get clammed in with wide empires that gobble all my land. Right now however, I have 9 turns of marching time from London to Paris. There is so much land I'm tempted to restart, go Liberty and settle 4-5 cities and THEN go for Paris.

Oh, I should mention that I went for National College and then the Oracle, and got Tithe, Pagoda and Cathedrals for my religion.

Is it a mistake to go for NC prior to my first war? I mean, I have to clear the barbs along the way anyway, plus I need some gold income and lux improvements to secure a budget for the troops.

Also, I took 2 workers from sweden but it took 15 turns to march them back from the other side of the continent. In hindsight, it would have made much more sense to steal them off good ol flathat instead.

Any comments regarding NC/Oracle? I got tempted to get the Oracle since 2 salt gives pretty hefty production and 1 free SOPOL is 1 free SOPOL after all. You can steal wonders sure, but the effect this one provides you can't steal.

I also went for One with Nature but I think I should have gotten God of the Sea just to deny it to Dido who has about 8 fish/sea resources near her cities, which will come back to bite me in the buttox I think.

I should probably post the save, but be warned - it has all the DLCs enabled (sorry).
 
T150 update:
Spoiler :

Managed to steal Compass and Education, but by then I was the tech leader on my continent. Had to hard-tech Astronomy and use Oxford on Navigation. So, I didn't discover the other continent until ~t150. This slows things down a lot because my overall strategy heavily relies on tech-stealing Industrialization. This gets you factories early, which gets you Autocracy early, which boosts tech theft.

However, it doesn't much matter, as I'm #3 in tech on t150 anyway. Slow tech game for the AI. Spain has pretty much taken over the entire other continent. (She controls 3 capitals)

On my own continent, the war did not go as planned. I had to settle for Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Warsaw. But I stopped capturing before I met the other continent, so no warmonger penalty.

My only two coastal cities are England and one expo, so I switched all trade routes to internal production. (2 cargo ships + 4 caravans) I'm spitting out SoL every 4 turns. I've got Mercantilism, but no Big Ben because of the Industrialization delay.

It's something like t155 and I've got 6 SoL, 2 more building, and I've denounced Spain, which everyone loves. I'll be starting a two-pronged attack on her coastal cities soon. Unfortunately, Madrid is inland, so I desperately need industrialization to swim gatlings over. I'm going to have to hard-tech it, because Spain is the only one with that tech and it would be 17 turns to steal (vs) 11 to research. I could play long-ball and go for Dynamite, but I haven't given up entirely on a pre-t200 gatling/knight/SoL rush.

Also, policies so far: Full Liberty->Commerce to Mercantilism. If I had more than 2 coastal cities I would have gone for Exploration. But as it is, the happiness yield just isn't there.

Religion-wise, everything good was taken, so I went +2g/city, 1% production/follower, Guruship and +20% vs enemy cities that follow my religion. Naturally I have great prophets following my navy. ;-)

I really like Guruship for domination, because normally you're sacrificing Production to staff a university. This offsets that somewhat.

I had all universities up by t130, which again, is not bad for a Machinery rush. ;-)
More screenshots to come.


T182:
Spoiler :

Soooo, remember when I said that this map was worst-case scenario? Well, it got worse. There are ZERO coastal capitals in the *entire game*. Venice is coastal, but it's ice-locked!!!
Spoiler :


As a result, I've switched focus. I'm all-science now to get Artillery ASAP. At my current tech rate (232bpt at 182) and with a GS coming in 18 turns, it's going to be t200. :-(

However, given the slow tech rate of this map, t200 isn't too late to finish with artillery. (I think because Spain has been in perma-war with the whole map)

I had trouble getting access to coal, so Spain got Autocracy first. But I don't really need double-rate theft, considering I'm about to hit #1 in tech. And as soon as I finish 2 more factories, I'll have cheaper rush-bought units. I'll have Big Ben in 7 turns, and roughly 3k, enough money to rush-buy a ton of artillery. (armory-promoted)

My plan is to invade the coastal cities nearest to Venice and Madrid at once with 2 fleets of SoL. I'll sell all those cities to William for open borders, and invade those two capitals with artillery. (Venice because he has ALL the wonders in the game... it's ludicrous)

While my artillery invade those capitals, my fleets will invade the puppet cities of Spain closest to Lisbon, Stockholm and Persepolis. Meanwhile I'll be swimming over 2 more artillery armies. So, with any luck, I'll have the map cleared by t220 or something. With ZERO coastal capitals, there's just no way I can achieve sub-t200, even with my logistics+range gatling army. :p

Anyway, I hope this demonstrates how flexibility is key, and how this strategy works *even in the worst-case scenario*.


T205 update:
Spoiler :

At 300bpt, I hit Dynamite before my GS kicked in so I used it to get Steam Power. With Mobilization, Big Ben & Mercantilism, it's 220g/Artillery. Needless to say it's only a matter of time now. While I waited for them, I've been Liberating all of Spain's coastal puppets, so everyone *should* love me, except somehow I got the "didn't move troops from someone's borders" bug, even though I always selected WAR when that question was asked. I know there's a bug with that but I haven't figured out what triggers it.

Anyway, I just hit #1 in tech, and this game is in the bag, but I'm tied up with the G-Minor right now, so I'll probably finish it later.
 
Myth and Legend said:
I need much practice to be able to clear my continent before meeting the other civs. I had a start with England with 2 salt and 3 wheat on a plains coast. South of my initial position is mt. Sinai on a nice coastal spot with 2 salt and 1 wheat near it.

I settled both, but went tradition (might have been a mistake). Dido is huddled on a C shaped peninsula which is littered with jungle and forest. The choke point next to Carthage is 2 tiles wide - in other words, this city will only fall to galeons or SOTLs.

East of my position is poor hapless Napoleon who decided to annex a city state. An act which pissed the hell out of Sweden and Poland. I allied with the swedes and poles and even got ~200 gold to attack France after Sweden DOW-ed him (since I was planning to do so anyway and he was my most immediate target).

The funny thing is that when I want to play a peaceful game as Babs or France I get clammed in with wide empires that gobble all my land. Right now however, I have 9 turns of marching time from London to Paris. There is so much land I'm tempted to restart, go Liberty and settle 4-5 cities and THEN go for Paris.

Oh, I should mention that I went for National College and then the Oracle, and got Tithe, Pagoda and Cathedrals for my religion.

Is it a mistake to go for NC prior to my first war? I mean, I have to clear the barbs along the way anyway, plus I need some gold income and lux improvements to secure a budget for the troops.

Also, I took 2 workers from sweden but it took 15 turns to march them back from the other side of the continent. In hindsight, it would have made much more sense to steal them off good ol flathat instead.

Any comments regarding NC/Oracle? I got tempted to get the Oracle since 2 salt gives pretty hefty production and 1 free SOPOL is 1 free SOPOL after all. You can steal wonders sure, but the effect this one provides you can't steal.

I also went for One with Nature but I think I should have gotten God of the Sea just to deny it to Dido who has about 8 fish/sea resources near her cities, which will come back to bite me in the buttox I think.

I should probably post the save, but be warned - it has all the DLCs enabled (sorry).
Click to expand...

Oracle is hard to reliably get on Deity when warmongering, because your build queue is too full of troops and more essential buildings. As far as NC, your priorities should be monuments/archers/settlers/pyramids and THEN libraries around t55 while you attack someone. I typically finish NC around t80-t85 as a result unless I'm having an amazing game.
 
Tried Chysp's file for fun.

This map is all about growth. Can you see these numbers? Growth is amazing...i'm going for Education then Navigation. Let's see if i can do a kind of Machinery then artillery rush and destroy everything in a blast. I can even keep up in production.

Spoiler :


Spoiler :


Simple 3 cities Trad approach. Stole a worker to Netherlands pretty early but that's all about wars and AI gifts so far.
 
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