Research Agreements post-patch

shaglio · Nov 7, 2012

I haven’t had the chance to play the new patch yet because my computer keeps overheating on me :cry:

But I’ve heard a lot of people mention that the AI’s are generally poorer than pre-patch because they spend their excess gold on units. Now people are having a harder time trading their extra luxury resources for 240 gold and the AIs can’t easily buy up all the CSs.

But the one thing I’ve yet to hear anyone talk about is how the lack of AI funds is affecting Research Agreements. Since Science is important for every VC and a common tactic is to sign multiple RAs to vault themselves through the tech tree, I was wondering if the patch has hindered the player’s ability to keep up in the tech race (especially on higher difficulties). Is this actually a problem?

Cromagnus · Nov 7, 2012

shaglio said:
I havent had the chance to play the new patch yet because my computer keeps overheating on me

But Ive heard a lot of people mention that the AIs are generally poorer than pre-patch because they spend their excess gold on units. Now people are having a harder time trading their extra luxury resources for 240 gold and the AIs cant easily buy up all the CSs.

But the one thing Ive yet to hear anyone talk about is how the lack of AI funds is affecting Research Agreements. Since Science is important for every VC and a common tactic is to sign multiple RAs to vault themselves through the tech tree, I was wondering if the patch has hindered the players ability to keep up in the tech race (especially on higher difficulties). Is this actually a problem?

I haven't noticed that it's a problem. It actually makes it easier to keep up if you're being warlike. I've only played one game through so far, (Immortal) and the AIs basically weren't signing RA's with each other at all, so the fact that they all hated me didn't end up hurting me all that much. Presumably because they never had enough money to sign an RA.

Keep in mind also that because the AIs are spending their money before they hit 240, they're also spending it before they can give monetary gifts to city-states.

However, it changes as the game progresses. Once the base military unit gets more expensive, the AIs tend to have more gold before they spend it. Still, as I said, I noticed very few Research Agreements. All in all, if you can get past the early game issue of not being able to sell resources, I think the game is easier in the long run now. But as I said, I'm basing that on one game.

shaglio · Nov 7, 2012

Cromagnus said:
I haven't noticed that it's a problem. It actually makes it easier to keep up if you're being warlike. I've only played one game through so far, (Immortal) and the AIs basically weren't signing RA's with each other at all, so the fact that they all hated me didn't end up hurting me all that much. Presumably because they never had enough money to sign an RA.

Keep in mind also that because the AIs are spending their money before they hit 240, they're also spending it before they can give monetary gifts to city-states.

However, it changes as the game progresses. Once the base military unit gets more expensive, the AIs tend to have more gold before they spend it. Still, as I said, I noticed very few Research Agreements. All in all, if you can get past the early game issue of not being able to sell resources, I think the game is easier in the long run now. But as I said, I'm basing that on one game.

I guess I didn't take that into account. If the AI has less money and can't make RAs with the player, they won't have money to make RAs with each other either. So the lack of RAs overall should equal out and it shouldn't cause the player to lag behind in the tech race.

Cicerosaurus · Nov 7, 2012

I'd like to see it possible, if the AI is short of funds that you offer the RA plus the required funds to get them to agree to a RA.

wylergnu · Nov 7, 2012

Cicerosaurus said:
I'd like to see it possible, if the AI is short of funds that you offer the RA plus the required funds to get them to agree to a RA.

I often gift some money first so they have the required funds and then ask for a research agreement, but I guess theres no guarantee that they will accept it.

Im only playing my first post patch game (immortal) but Im up to modern times and there hasnt been a single research agreement yet. I regularly check all the AI Civs to see if any have the needed funds but only one has ever come close and we were not friendly anyway.

Im playing as Babylon going for a science win so its killing me.

Halcyan2 · Nov 7, 2012

I actually think the new cash-starved model benefits the player more.

Other posters have mentioned that since all the AI's are perpetually short on cash, it makes it hard for the AI's to sign RA's with each other.

While civs don't have lots of cash on hand, they still have a good amount of gold per turn. So the player can simply bankroll both ends of the RA (trade your lump sum gold for gpt).

Trading with the AI is still very viable - it's just that you have to rely more on GPT instead of lump sum gold. In turn, this does help the AI's from getting exploited by players who trade for all their gold and then follow up with a DoW.

shaglio · Nov 8, 2012

Halcyan2 said:
Trading with the AI is still very viable - it's just that you have to rely more on GPT instead of lump sum gold. In turn, this does help the AI's from getting exploited by players who trade for all their gold and then follow up with a DoW.

The new cash starved AI situation would also create more opportunities for straight-up Luxury for Luxury trading. I admit, I've rarely done this previously in Civ 5, but I may take advantage of it more often now (well, once I get my new graphics card and can play again).

rev063 · Nov 8, 2012

wylergnu said:
I often gift some money first so they have the required funds and then ask for a research agreement, but I guess theres no guarantee that they will accept it.

I've been successful offering a gold-per-turn loan to the AI (e.g. 290 gold for 10 gpt) and then immediately following up with a RA offer.

Luca_zbr · Nov 8, 2012

I did some games after patch, diety difficult, and in my opinion, Shaglio is right.
Ai haven't money, is more difficult sell resources especially in first part of the game, and using spies and RA you do not stay back. (finally)

sorry for my bad english, I'm italian

Research Agreements post-patch

shaglio

The Prince of Dorkness

Cromagnus

Deity

shaglio

The Prince of Dorkness

Cicerosaurus

Emperor

wylergnu

Chieftain

Halcyan2

Emperor

shaglio

The Prince of Dorkness

rev063

Chieftain

Luca_zbr

Chieftain

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