Underrated UUs/UBs

CouNterOrdeR said:

Everyone loves Axes so why not Numidian cav? They are essentially a 2 move axeman with the ability to withdraw.

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Axes are not vulnerable to spears. It's not that NC are bad per se', but I often doubt their strength over stock HA's.

Underrated UU's:

Janissary, Oromo: Not discussed among top UU's. They are.
Keshik: Most people think it's above average, but it can dominate as soundly as the praet.
Musketeer: Usually considered a bottom UU when it is average.
Skirmisher: Extreme, nasty versatility. Comical to use as a rush in MP.
Camel Archer: Also considered bad when it's more average. It's painful to see people put crap like the HRE UU ahead of it.
Hwacha: The only unique siege unit (though spain gets quasi unique siege with its UB), it is markedly improved against a lot of early defenders.

Underrated UBs:

Ikhanda: just because people don't rate it as a top 3 UB consistently
Shale plant: The only thing about the japanese civilization that is decent. You can manipulate health and a flat production boost helps.
Madrassa: You don't lose culture battles if you get this soon. Not even to creative. Also, you can farm priests if you want to do that or just run 4 specs off one building for more GPP. Pretty versatile for a UB that comes early.
Apothecary: health is a consistent bottleneck...this alleviates it. Persia can get away with more rapid industrialization and that's helpful.
Hammam: Another top-flight UB that consistently gets rated behind average crap like dikes.

imo, the War chariot is fairly underrated. The fast worker and the skirmisher are also underrated.

I never realized just how powerful Conquistadors were until I decided to go a war-mongering with Isabella. Wow. And the UB (while being an upgrade to the admittedly lame castle) means that you can generate CRIII trebs right out of the gate, even without abandoning Bureaucracy. This allows one to fight a medieval war even while maintaining position as tech leader. The combination of the two makes for a mighty impressive, albeit short, peak.

Whether or not they are underrated is hard to say. I know I had never considered them particularly powerful before playing them. Now I've changed my mind.

To know what's underrated you'd need to know how people rate stuff, and that can be a bit tricky... Anyway, I mostly get a feeling that resource leniencies are greatly underrated. That would make Skirmishers, Gallics, Camel Archers, Jaguars underrated IMO (Holkans excluded on purpose).

Overrating is much more common IMO but I'll not mention my opinion on those to not get derailed

NCs... Well, IMO they just suck as HA replacements. They're very good as support units, but not useful for massed assaults like HAs since they're so much more worse against Archers. That's the troop the AIs spam most by far, since it's the only unit they make before hooking up a resource and a very frequent unit to build even after while owning the crap out of NCs on defense to . Overrated if anything (whoops!).

I find all UU to be overrated and don't really get why so many people beeline their UU just because it's their UU. In most games the unique ability of the UU doesn't really matter much.

Spain itself tends to get underrated because the bonuses are good for a very narrow window, but if you beeline for your uniques you are going to have a fun time clown-stomping whoever looks at you funny. The Spiritual trait also gets dumped on, not surprisingly, by those people who don't want to constantly be changing their civics. That's what it's there for!

Silu said:

NCs... Well, IMO they just suck as HA replacements. They're very good as support units, but not useful for massed assaults like HAs since they're so much more worse against Archers. That's the troop the AIs spam most by far, since it's the only unit they make before hooking up a resource and a very frequent unit to build even after while owning the crap out of NCs on defense to . Overrated if anything (whoops!).

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Fpr me, they are at the same level as keshik, plain and simple. The minor strength loss is easily forgotten for a unit that get easily mobility and retreat a lot more than standard HA. For defensive purpose, they are flat out superior ; for city attack I don't really see them as inferior, you need a little more at first, but you need less replacements.

Silu said:

To know what's underrated you'd need to know how people rate stuff, and that can be a bit tricky... Anyway, I mostly get a feeling that resource leniencies are greatly underrated. That would make Skirmishers, Gallics, Camel Archers, Jaguars underrated IMO (Holkans excluded on purpose).

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Good observations. There is nothing so frustrating as playing Persia/Mongolia without early access to horses, or the Caesars without iron. It should be noted though: Gallics and Jaguars require geographical cooperation to see their full potential, and that is a strike against them. Of course, finding exploitable land is more likely than is getting one particular resource.

Ok, so they are HA slightly less vulnerable to spearmen - still I prefer regular HA as archers is the #1 enemy and most cities have no spearmen at all inside them early on. If I don't go for horseback riding early I don't get it until medieval in which case they are owned by longbows.

Dikes are awesome but obviously only on water heavy maps.

Windsor said:

I find all UU to be overrated and don't really get why so many people beeline their UU just because it's their UU. In most games the unique ability of the UU doesn't really matter much.

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i don't beeline, but i'll use my UU as my main force behind my army during the time it is advantageous.

i think it's really about knowing how and when to use each civ's UU and UB that makes the game challenging. they may seem useless, but you're probably not in the right situation.

I don't know where the Dog Soldier ranks, but they've saved my bacon a number of times due to the fact that you can build them without needing copper or iron. When the barbarians started coming out of the woodwork, they were a godsend.

The totem poles I'm also partial to, since if I can get Stonehenge, my archers pretty much automatically come out to defend against anything early on when coupled with a barracks without having to build additional totems. Hammams are awesome, particularly when I'm surrounded by flood plains and trying to grow my city. Where does the Rathaus rank? That building in particular saved my economy single-handedly while I'm trying to figure out Charlemagne.

FriendoftheDork said:

Ok, so they are HA slightly less vulnerable to spearmen - still I prefer regular HA as archers is the #1 enemy and most cities have no spearmen at all inside them early on. If I don't go for horseback riding early I don't get it until medieval in which case they are owned by longbows.

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You're wrong. They ALSO get a free prom, and one that I give to every HA : flanking. It ùmean they can have flanking 2 and mobility out of the stable ; so they are also HA that move as fast as keshik (nearly as fast in fact, because -1 mov cost is not the same as ignoring them)

davelisowski said:

i don't beeline, but i'll use my UU as my main force behind my army during the time it is advantageous.

i think it's really about knowing how and when to use each civ's UU and UB that makes the game challenging. they may seem useless, but you're probably not in the right situation.

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It also depends on game speed. At normal or fast, many units lack the staying power to really plan on using their ability to its full potential. By the time you've gotten them in the field and fighting, they are usually ready to upgrade. Even at Marathon many have relatively short windows of usefulness. That doesn't mean they're not worth beelining (within reason) and leveraging, though. I am in the middle of a marathon game with Spain where I was able to take out two entire civs without fielding anything but Conquistadors and cannons. The third civ was taken out with a mix of Conqs and Cavalry. Those wars would have taken much longer, and my tech lead would be much less had I not developed Conqs early enough for them to be the best horsemen in the world for over a century. I have had similar experience with the nearly as short-lived Jannissaries and Oromo Warriors (haven't played france enough to accurately assess the musketeer, but I could see it being nearly as useful as the other musket uus). If you are ahead in tech, playing on a slow speed, and you plan to invade your neighbors, beelining to a middle era UU and spamming it is generally a good idea.(imo)

RagingCalm said:

I don't know where the Dog Soldier ranks, but they've saved my bacon a number of times due to the fact that you can build them without needing copper or iron. When the barbarians started coming out of the woodwork, they were a godsend.

The totem poles I'm also partial to, since if I can get Stonehenge, my archers pretty much automatically come out to defend against anything early on when coupled with a barracks without having to build additional totems. Hammams are awesome, particularly when I'm surrounded by flood plains and trying to grow my city. Where does the Rathaus rank? That building in particular saved my economy single-handedly while I'm trying to figure out Charlemagne.

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Unless you're playing deity or raging barbs, the vast majority of starts can handle barbs with nothing but warriors. For obvious exceptions (it's turn 15+ and you've met nobody and there is a lot of mainland), you can just pick up archery or great wall as either own barbs quite soundly and are available to all civs.

TheLazyHase said:

You're wrong. They ALSO get a free prom, and one that I give to every HA : flanking. It ùmean they can have flanking 2 and mobility out of the stable ; so they are also HA that move as fast as keshik (nearly as fast in fact, because -1 mov cost is not the same as ignoring them)

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Well if they keep the free promo when upgraded that's a good point. Otherwise I don't often give my horse archers that promo, i rely on +10% attack instead as it opens up a nice tree of promos and are just as important if not more when knights come around.

On some maps mobility can be good but usually I can live without it. i don't think Keshik are that good either, but at least they have full strength and 1 extra first strike. Still hardly as good as Praetorians. If they were to be equal str 7 would be a minimum, and even str 8 would be nice in my book, if they lost the first strike and fs immunity.

Obelisk is quite under-rated.

I founded Conf in this game and it went to my second best city. 4 floodplains, Pig and wheat, plus 6 hills, nevermind 2 was deserthills. 18 prophets later as settled. Ironworks and WS just made it insane. One of the deserthills got coal.

I never got a scientist, only priests.

I think that generally, many UUs are not regarded highly enough for the edge they give you long after they passed their prime. Especially on Deity, I find 'good enough and easily achievable' preferable to 'awesome but I need a favourable position to use it in the first place'. In this context, even Praetorians and Quechuas are underrated... but I think some players overestimate their reliability in breaking the game so it balances out on the whole.

Skirmisher: rush-worthy, amusingly strong at choking and barbarian defense, cost-effective for 3 eras, resourceless, uncounterable, no potential drawbacks (unlike Dog Soldiers and Jaguars, two other possible life savers). I consider these a contender for the best UU in the game because they have so many applications. They make unwinnable games winnable if you lack strategic resources while still giving the strongest resource-dependent UUs a run for their money if you could build those.

Oromo: solid immediately, serious long-time potential. They are worth a beeline. They are a fantastic complement to cannons. Persistent promotions when upgrading to Rifles or directly to Infantry will give already strong units a major boost. Choose the right play and they shine, choose the wrong play and they are still decent.

War Chariot: Respected as a rush unit, but underrated for later use. I prefer them over any Horse Archer UU even if I don't get to rush, because they are more cost-effective and allow a more flexible tech path.

Conquistador: Your opponents need either a tech lead or a somewhat rare resource to have adequate defenders. Even then, the combination of 2 moves, flanking capability and being good defenders is hard to deal with, especially for the AI.

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UBs are more difficult. I think Ikhanda, Rathaus and Sacrifical Altar (top3 by a mile in my estimation) are already very respected although I'm not sure the last is recognised for its true awesomeness. Discounted courthouse coupled with a great production edge... wow. Especially useful on water maps where adequate production is hard to get otherwise (I'd probably prefer it over Dikes/Cothons on these), and lategame whipping assisted by the Kremlin is also very sweet.
Is the Terrace appreciated enough for its ability to give your new cities a better start and being a source of culture that remains in conquered cities? Not sure. Buildings I definitely consider to be underrated:

Mint and Stock Exchange: These are awesome combined with Financial
leaders. Forget about smelly and inefficient production, rushbuy is great anyway and ridiculous with these.

Madrassa: A rather nice culture edge, but I especially appreciate the priest slots. With Angkor Wat, Arabia can get enough production anywhere if you have the food.

Dun: I don't like it too much myself because I prefer economic over military advantages... but a full promotion that makes the ever-so-nice Guerilla 3 attainable is worth more than the mere xp handed out by other military UBs. Unlike the Totem Pole, it can also benefit Musketmen and Grenadiers so it's not that short-lived.

From what I gather, the Samurai isn't rated too highly. But I find it very useful. It arrives just at the right time for wars against India and Mongolia on the Earth Map, and is generally very useful as a City Raider.

-Navy Seals end games 10-15 turns ahead of stock Marines.
-Conq beelines end games really really fast (don't need to wait for seige)

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-The sacrificial altar is the best UB in the game by far imo. A food heavy economy means overwhelming force by the time you start whipping an army. Can't think of another UB that wins games by itself for you.

Mittens said:

-The sacrificial altar is the best UB in the game by far imo. A food heavy economy means overwhelming force by the time you start whipping an army. Can't think of another UB that wins games by itself for you.

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One word, just one word : ikhanda.