[FFH] - Erebus in the Balance

Yeah, we need a new thread. I think I like start 3 a bit more than start 1, but both are pretty good.

Darrell

I just don't like coasts. Although if we ignore them, then it's a good start too, and I suppose it's unlikely for us to work every tile in the BFC anyway.
 
I just don't like coasts. Although if we ignore them, then it's a good start too, and I suppose it's unlikely for us to work every tile in the BFC anyway.

Mahala gets half priced Harbors though...
 
I want start 3 and settle on the eastern wines. But I could go with start 1 too.

I'm tempted to found south or southeast so our second border pop gets the Wheat in play, but your suggestion can work too.
 
I'm tempted to found south or southeast so our second border pop gets the Wheat in play, but your suggestion can work too.

If we take start three, which is still apparently hypothetical, what's wrong with settling in place? I don't like coasts, it's true, but I do like getting Dragon Bones, Wines, and Wheat all in the same city.

Maybe you mean south of the blue circle? Which is where the settler is now?
 
If we take start three, which is still apparently hypothetical, what's wrong with settling in place? I don't like coasts, it's true, but I do like getting Dragon Bones, Wines, and Wheat all in the same city.

Maybe you mean south of the blue circle? Which is where the settler is now?

No problem with settling in place. I just considered that since the capital is going to be one of our few decent cities, then it's a good idea to make it inland. But I agree with darrell that more scouting is needed regarding start 3.
 
blue circle in start 3 seems great, you get coastal access with 4 coast tiles only, riverside and immediate access to a UF and 2 cottagefarms ( wines ) . build some beastmen while you tech to axes and go bash people :D
 
[to_xp]Gekko;11218607 said:
blue circle in start 3 seems great, you get coastal access with 4 coast tiles only, riverside and immediate access to a UF and 2 cottagefarms ( wines ) . build some beastmen while you tech to axes and go bash people :D

The trouble with that particular location is food - only two floodplains and the wines doesn't add up to all that much food. Food is especially important for our capital, in a Conquest plan - nearly everything we build will be built with food, both settlers and normal units.
 
Interesting choices. I think I'm in favor of start 1 - I think we'll be gaining enough of our challenge from the variant, that we don't need to add to it with the start.

Also, shouldn't we be migrating to a new thread?

Start 3 would be VERY easy...
 
The trouble with that particular location is food - only two floodplains and the wines doesn't add up to all that much food. Food is especially important for our capital, in a Conquest plan - nearly everything we build will be built with food, both settlers and normal units.

you'll have 2 floodplain farms, two grass farms and two cottagefarms. 8 food surplus from those will allow you to work 8 flat plains/grass hills while still growing. add the dragonbones and you get 6 + 8 + 1 = 15 tiles workable without issues.

how big is that city gonna get anyway since you want horizontal growth, not vertical?

also, you're definitely going to be using agrarianism before you get conquest, so that's another 4 food for fast growth in the critical early game. hammers from plains/hills are just as good as food in conquest, so I don't think you need much more.

farmed non-wet wheat is 3F1H hammer anyway which is less than the northern floodplain farm you would lose, and you'd also be further from the river in a more hilly spot, so less food and less commerce, both vital early game. a couple riverside flat plains cottages would be great to have, as you'll need commerce for unit upgrades.
 
[to_xp]Gekko;11219626 said:
you'll have 2 floodplain farms, two grass farms and two cottagefarms. 8 food surplus from those will allow you to work 8 flat plains/grass hills while still growing. add the dragonbones and you get 6 + 8 + 1 = 15 tiles workable without issues.

how big is that city gonna get anyway since you want horizontal growth, not vertical?

also, you're definitely going to be using agrarianism before you get conquest, so that's another 4 food for fast growth in the critical early game. hammers from plains/hills are just as good as food in conquest, so I don't think you need much more.

farmed non-wet wheat is 3F1H hammer anyway which is less than the northern floodplain farm you would lose, and you'd also be further from the river in a more hilly spot, so less food and less commerce, both vital early game. a couple riverside flat plains cottages would be great to have, as you'll need commerce for unit upgrades.

The Dragon Bones is the key. It is a super economy boost right from the beginning.
 
[to_xp]Gekko;11219626 said:
how big is that city gonna get anyway since you want horizontal growth, not vertical?
It's not the size, it's the surplus. The higher the surplus, the faster we have our units, the faster we get up to size, etc.

farmed non-wet wheat is 3F1H hammer anyway which is less than the northern floodplain farm you would lose, and you'd also be further from the river in a more hilly spot, so less food and less commerce, both vital early game. a couple riverside flat plains cottages would be great to have, as you'll need commerce for unit upgrades.

That wheat is wet. Mostly my objection, though, is to founding on top of the floodplain and destroying it. If we go north, I like Ichabod's suggestion of on the wines instead much better - we can spare that 2 commerce much more easily than the floodplains food.

also, you're definitely going to be using agrarianism before you get conquest, so that's another 4 food for fast growth in the critical early game. hammers from plains/hills are just as good as food in conquest, so I don't think you need much more.
Actually - with this start, probably not. We have no particular reason to go to Calendar, we might very well pick up Education and unlock Conquest first.


In any event - since I'm anxious to start, I'm willing to use start 3 since that seems to be the consensus of the rest of the group.
 
1) I thought the lake adj to the wheat was a peak O.o

2) I forgot floodplains get destroyed on settling in vanilla FFH

so those are two good points, but I still like that blue circle spot best. also, as AJ11 says, working dragon bones since turn 1 gives a great boost.
 
Start 3 would be VERY easy...

Not quite. We need quite some turns working the dragon bones to make up for the "commerce loss" of starting without a starting tech. The increased happiness is very nice, but nothing game breaking either.

Rememeber that we are playing under a severe variant. 8 workable tiles per city is not an easy thing...


The Dragon Bones is the key. It is a super economy boost right from the beginning.

[to_xp]Gekko;11219985 said:
1) I thought the lake adj to the wheat was a peak O.o

2) I forgot floodplains get destroyed on settling in vanilla FFH

so those are two good points, but I still like that blue circle spot best. also, as AJ11 says, working dragon bones since turn 1 gives a great boost.

Working the dragon bones from turn 1 is not a "great boost" compared to working it as a second ring tile. If we are playing quick speed, the dragon bones being at the second ring from the city settled on the wines loses us compared to the city settled on the blue circle is a net loss of 3 commerce in the first 3 turns. Let's see:

1. City on the fp:

Works dragon bones from size 1 (3 commerce) + city center (1 commerce) = 4 commerce per turn.

2. City on the Wines:

Works fp (1 commerce) + city center (2 commerce) = 3 commerce per turn.

3 turns until border pop = when it pops, starts working dragon bones for +5 commerce per turn -> after turn 6 we are at a net gain.


So, which is best: a better long term capital (that will be our key city in the game) or a short term commerce boost.

Of course, you have to take a lot of other things into account, like not being able to improve the settled upon wine (wine is very good, since it's in our desired tech path and can be improved early). But the dragon bones are far from being an instant "win" button.
 
I think we should take the first start just so we don't have to get trolled all game about how we took the easy way out. ;)
 
I think we should take the first start just so we don't have to get trolled all game about how we took the easy way out. ;)

Works for me, too. In which case I agree with Darrell, grab the plains hill.

I suppose ultimately Ilios' is the final call, he's still in possession :).
 
I've attached the save, I'm too tired to play now, so if anyone feels up to it, go right ahead. All I'll say is our cap should be riverside so we can get the Brewing House.

:)
 

Attachments

  • EIB - SG 2 Save1.CivBeyondSwordSave
    59.5 KB · Views: 87
Top Bottom