How I beat the Mongol Scenario on Deity

2 Chinas leaves 6 other civs to kill right....God, how is one to kill them all in ~50 turns? Japan seems to be an option, but because there isn't much room to invade their coastal cities, it's a fairly huge risk. I was thinking I would do 2 Chinas, India, Persia, Arabs, Byzantines. Russia is the weakest, apparently, but I haven't been able to find their cities yet.

Have you beaten it on Emperor or Immortal yet? If you haven't I'd suggest working through your technique on scenarios where you don't have to cross dozens of hexes of jungle with rivers in the way or try to cross the Sea of Japan into a hostile island full of Samurai. Those particular maneuvers are giant time-sinks that are very unrewarding.

You basically have to split armies and fight two-front wars to kill India or Japan without falling off schedule for a push West.

- Marty Lund
 
No, not beaten on Emperor or Immortal. I guess I'll try them out first and let you know how it goes. India seems like it'd be much easier than Japan seeing as it's directly west of south China (which is where my troops usually end up after killing both Chinas). That way I could kill my way to the West, no? Though it's true the jungle freaking sucks.

Did you choose to destroy Persia instead in your playthrough?

I'm wondering if anyone would be able to do a YouTube walkthrough of this on Emperor/Immortal/Deity, with a focus on tactical manuevers and timing (i.e. when you should be hitting the Arabs etc). Any takers?
 
That way I could kill my way to the West, no? Though it's true the jungle freaking sucks.
Keshiks are great off road vehicles: 3 moves in a jungle and 2 on marshes. There is also a path to India by Lhasa. Roads seem to help Persia more in a GA. So India->Persia seems more prudent.
 
The real problems are that not only do you have to cut through the jungles, but the rivers too. I never tried entering via Lhasa. Is the path wider than that kill-zone bottleneck off the Silk Road? That was an absolute disaster in terms of time consumption.

On the plus side, if Lhasa is allied with an enemy Civ then you can stomp it for a few Social Policy without scaring off Abbiddos later. If you get free reign of India for your troubles then it is totally worth it.

Yes, when I played on Emperor I ran through Song, Jin, Persia, Arabia, Byzantium, and Russia without a lot of trouble. If there's a solid path through Lhasa into India then I'd take that before Persia and clean up.

Japan, however, is the devil. Nobunaga does nothing but spam pikes and samurai and fill up almost every hex of his main island. His guys sit in difficult terrain and are almost impossible to displace with ranged attacks.

- Marty Lund
 
The real problems are that not only do you have to cut through the jungles, but the rivers too. I never tried entering via Lhasa. Is the path wider than that kill-zone bottleneck off the Silk Road? That was an absolute disaster in terms of time consumption.

On the plus side, if Lhasa is allied with an enemy Civ then you can stomp it for a few Social Policy without scaring off Abbiddos later. If you get free reign of India for your troubles then it is totally worth it.

Yes, when I played on Emperor I ran through Song, Jin, Persia, Arabia, Byzantium, and Russia without a lot of trouble. If there's a solid path through Lhasa into India then I'd take that before Persia and clean up.

Japan, however, is the devil. Nobunaga does nothing but spam pikes and samurai and fill up almost every hex of his main island. His guys sit in difficult terrain and are almost impossible to displace with ranged attacks.
The pass by Lhasa is narrow, not practical unless a keshik has indirect fire and range when it can help hit the first Indian city. The rivers/jungle after China, assuming the military CS gets knocked off, isn't as bad as expected. I had 8-9 keshiks and 2 horsemen to get through the jungles. A wee bit of healing can be done while jockeying for river crossings. It's tricky and a person really wants to get the Khaaan achievement first. (Lose scenario but explore whole map doing so.) Once through rivers/jungles India falls very fast so expect happiness problems. It was after India that I figured I could slow up the pace somewhat. I needed only Persia and Russia for rifles so the Arabian slow down (for me) could be handled.

While all this was going on, a single keshik and a unit or two took the 2 tile island from Japan. I had 3 wars with Oda. He may not have ever made contact with anyone but the 2 Chinas. He always had cash and wasn't spending it. (So I kept cheesing him.)

Curiously, I had 1 RA with Russia, forgot to block and got chemistry. Never built a cannon! (I was already committed to frigates for Japan.)
 
Tried it on Emperor today, though people had fewer troops than normal, I still wasn't able to pull off 6 conquests fast enough. The 2 Chinas fell easily as I thought, and I was ravaging India by around turn 60, which is so far the best I can do. Persia got stronger, even though they had far fewer troops, the no. of cities that they have poses a real problem when you only have 100 turns to finish it all. Sigh. It's good to hear you were able to conquer Japan, iggy, I tried that once, but the cities kept wrecking my units while they were at sea. :(

EDIT: Here's a saved game of the most recent Emperor attempt. This time I killed off Persia instead of India, and am ravaging Arabia 7 turns away from defeat. Sigh. So close. Oh well.
 
EDIT: I can't find the saved game of the scenario, are they not saved in the My Games -> Civ 5 folder like the other saved games?
They may be in modded saves.

There does seem to be a difference between king/emperor and immortal/deity. Like more colosseums in cities or something. The CS Abbissids (sp?) may be one and as maritime its 500 gold to go with it. HE is also more useful as the morale promo helps counter unhappiness penalty.
 
Found the saved game file, thanks for the heads up.

This scenario, I think, is gradually driving me insane. I always come close, but never quite close enough (as my attached save shows). Part of the problem is that I purchase my units from my capital, while my main forces fight the enemy many miles away. Would you recommend simply annexing a city and building from there instead? I think I'll downgrade to King on this scenario until I have a better handle on micro tactics. So far I've been stomped by:
-Random Naresuan's Elephants coming out from Northern Chinese cities
-City-states allied with the AI late-game.
-Cannons.

Still looking for that YouTube Let's Play of this scenario, if anyone's willing. Would be really helpful. (Darn, I should have just played before the patch corrected the exploit). =|
 
This scenario, I think, is gradually driving me insane.

It'll do that.

Would you recommend simply annexing a city and building from there instead?

I tend to Annex + Courthouse + Colosseum in one of Persia's cities once I roll them to give me an extra base to back-fill. I seldom buy units outright, though. That Gold has better uses.

I think I'll downgrade to King on this scenario until I have a better handle on micro tactics. So far I've been stomped by:
-Random Naresuan's Elephants coming out from Northern Chinese cities

Yeah, those are annoying. Usually I let Wu have at Jin for a few turns to mess with his gold. I also trade some nonessential resources to Jin and do the Trade + DoW on Wu to make sure I have money and they don't. Then I sweep into Wu hard and force her to capitulate cities. Then I stab right into Beijing, making Jin a complete mess incapable of building any more useful units. If you drain their banks first and hit them fast enough they can't mount enough of a defense.

-City-states allied with the AI late-game.

Most of them don't matter and don't last long enough to fight you. Abbiddos is the exception. They usually have a lot of good units late and their bridges are the only way to pass those rivers without losing a ton of turns and getting bombed. You've got to ally them and set them on the Arabs.

-Cannons.

Eh, they've got trash for range. You can shoot and scoot around them and take cities without cannons ever being able to fire on you. I think the narrow entry at the end of the Sinai makes Cairo a little harder to do this against but there's nothing stopping you from just burning down Mecca and then embarking across the Red Sea and hitting him from the South.

- Marty Lund
 
So you spend the gold on buildings instead, or on alliances with select CSes? You're right about the Abbassids, I was going to mention them. :)

What did you do on your walkthrough? How quickly did you take out each civ? I know you mentioned you took out both Chinas around turn 50?
 
So you spend the gold on buildings instead, or on alliances with select CSes? You're right about the Abbassids, I was going to mention them. :)

Buildings, mostly, with the cash from Persia thrown at Abbassids to facilitate crushing Arabia. You might be able to set the Crusader States against them too but they are marginal allies at best.

You can't raze capitals and you really aren't going to make enough Scouts and back-fill units out of your capital without some support. I usually Colosseum + Courthouse the capital of each defeated Civ when I have the funds and use them to push out extra bits and pieces by micromanaging them - like extra scouts or a random cannon.

What did you do on your walkthrough? How quickly did you take out each civ? I know you mentioned you took out both Chinas around turn 50?

I killed Ulghar first, after upgrading 2 Keshiks and sending one Horseman on a Grand Tour to get City State gold and trade contacts with other Civs. My workers chop-rushed to help me build infrastructure, then built a sheep pasture and some farms, then started in on connecting the capital to the Silk Road. I finished the Honor tree with my Turn 5 policy and the Cultural CS bonus. I trade away extra horses and iron to Wu for Gold, then DoW'd her, provoking Western Xia into warring on me. I stomped a mud hole in them and got bonus Horsemen and gold that I converted into more Keshiks.

At this point the Song / Jin conflict had drained both sides and they sued for peace with each other. I stomped Wu's Western city, taking Spice and Silk. Then I went after her southern city for Pearls. At that point she offers one of those capitulation Peace Treaties, giving me all her cities but her capital. I accept, raze the useless city, and reposition all my forces near Beijing.

I'd resold my resources to Jin slightly earlier for gold, so my DoW wipes out those deals so I can resell to Persia or Russia (I think Russia was more warmonger tolerant so I got better deals with Cathy). Beijing went down quickly when attacked across the hills from its North West. That takes out the Great Wall penalties that Jin tries to use to stop your hit-and-run. Then I went East and razed the city nearest Korea. The rest was mop-up.

Wu's last city is completely overwhelmed. It is just around turn 50 and I'm catching a good stride. Beijing and Shanghai get Courthouse / Colosseum and are tasked with building infrastructure or scouts while the Mongol capital is pumping out scouts like made to garrison every city for happiness.

Take everyone on the road to Persia. Violence ensues. I burn down two of Darius's cities, back-fill garrisons with scouts, and buy out Abbassids. I move into some neutral territory in the what would be modern Saudia Arabia, then DoW Arabia and stomp out Mecca. From there you can swim across the Red Sea and beat down Cairo, and then go up to Damascus and whatever their last city was.

Byzantium only has 2 cities, and only one of them puts up a real fight - Constantinople. The terrain approaching it kind of sucks. Hopefully we have some back-filled cannons and cannon-fodder (musketmen) at this point, as well as some Keshiks with Siege, Logistics, and Range.

Punch through that and Russia is cake so long as you hit her troops first, then her capital. Don't get caught up in a 3-way crossfire at the hub or her roads or hung up on the forests and marshes.

That finishes an Emperor run with minimal complications within the time limits. Gandhi and Nobunaga aren't maneuverable or brave enough to challenge you outside of their own territory, and the other Civs pretty much can't gang up on you outside of China due to their placements.

- Marty Lund
 
I just did this in 78 turns on immortal, the level I previously skipped. The start is slightly slower than deity but made up time. Bought a ton of scouts, 28 city empire at the end, knocking off 6 CSs en route. Allied all 3 CSs by Arabs at some point, one even killed a Persian city for me. :goodjob: India gone at turn 49. At turn 55 I had 3 cities of Persia under assault. Genghis Khan in the middle with 5 keshiks, a junior khan on the left with 3 keshiks and a junior khan on the right (Samarkand) breaking in a couple rookie keshiks and musketman/pike. Rifling at turn 64 and theocracy at turn 70 for ++happiness.

Annexed 1 city by Japan for kicks. Bought 1 courthouse, 2 colosseums, 1 monument and 1 temple otherwise units, units, units. The tech from Greece (7th civ) was going to be dynamite for an army to go after Japan with 4 frigates, 2 artillery and more.

Scouts rule! First scout went to explore and then garrison later, 2nd 1 went to take W. Xia since all 5 starting horse were keshiks by turn 5. (Any unit with 1 hit point beats a city with 1 hit point.) Don't know how to do a "let's play," but I do have a pic from the final turn. A little luck on city state quests: one wanted road, one want to discover Russia, and one wanted a natural wonder. I was Johnny on the spot.
 

Attachments

  • immortalkhan.JPG
    immortalkhan.JPG
    256.8 KB · Views: 706
I killed Ulghar first, after upgrading 2 Keshiks and sending one Horseman on a Grand Tour to get City State gold and trade contacts with other Civs. My workers chop-rushed to help me build infrastructure, then built a sheep pasture and some farms, then started in on connecting the capital to the Silk Road. I finished the Honor tree with my Turn 5 policy and the Cultural CS bonus. I trade away extra horses and iron to Wu for Gold, then DoW'd her, provoking Western Xia into warring on me. I stomped a mud hole in them and got bonus Horsemen and gold that I converted into more Keshiks.

At this point the Song / Jin conflict had drained both sides and they sued for peace with each other. I stomped Wu's Western city, taking Spice and Silk. Then I went after her southern city for Pearls. At that point she offers one of those capitulation Peace Treaties, giving me all her cities but her capital. I accept, raze the useless city, and reposition all my forces near Beijing
I have argue a couple of points. The main thing in this scenario is that XPs do not degrade during unhappiness. Damage does affecting XPs (I think) but it is rather moot. The important thing is to keep every possible keshik firing EVERY turn. A horseman off exploring is a keshik idle. Accepting cities in a peace treaty is a huge loss of XPs. In my immortal level game I got all original horsemen upgraded ASAP with trading and killing cultural CS. Western Xia added 2 horsemen to be the main city takers as well as wars with both Chinas and thus a 2nd khan by turn 10. Two armies at that point. One, 3 keshiks, would go nab Beijing and work east to Korea. (Japan was DoWed ASAP to get Korea to declare and to wipe out Oda's scout. Three wars out of the starting gate.) The second army, 2 keshiks, started working on the 2 cities south of Western Xia with new keshiks going to that front. A peace treaty with southern China was never even considered. (Wu will ally with Lhasa at some point and I was wondering if theocracy was possible.) However, at turn 24 I did grant Rammy 10 turns of relief for open borders. He was flat out broke with only one city. OB was the only thing I wanted to connect both armies. (I already had Korea by then.) By turn 34 Wu was no more and I had to spend one turn waiting before I could DoW Rammy. Of course, Lhasa was being attacked to keep keshiks busy.

All in all, I simply never stopped shooting. Finding ways to stay at reasonable happiness levels was challenging but doable. (By turn 40 I had DoWed India and Arabia. Arabia was major tactical cheese. He was only AI with money. I liberated it from him so as to plunk down 1000 gold on his 2 CSs allies next to Persia and destroy his influence with them for good. Eyesight into some of Persia's borders was a nice bonus too.)
 
For me the killer was that on my last Emperor try, I couldn't get both Chinas crushed until turn 40. Even when I killed both by turn 50, I simply didn't have enough *time* or *happiness* (even with scouts, courthouses, etc) to conquer 4 more....40 turns divided by 4 = 10 turns each, and they take longer to take down than that, esp. Persia with its numerous cities. Around what time should Persia be destroyed, what about timelines for Arabia, Byzantium and Russia too?

I'll work on trying to get a decent saved game uploaded. My last one uploaded to this thread showed me being inefficient and having failed. XD

Also, is waging war on Korea a good idea? They were fortified the last time, and with my unhappiness, a horseman I sent to conquer it at 1 strength was killed. O_O
 
For me the killer was that on my last Emperor try, I couldn't get both Chinas crushed until turn 40. Even when I killed both by turn 50, I simply didn't have enough *time* or *happiness* (even with scouts, courthouses, etc) to conquer 4 more....40 turns divided by 4 = 10 turns each, and they take longer to take down than that, esp. Persia with its numerous cities. Around what time should Persia be destroyed, what about timelines for Arabia, Byzantium and Russia too?

I'll work on trying to get a decent saved game uploaded. My last one uploaded to this thread showed me being inefficient and having failed. XD

Also, is waging war on Korea a good idea? They were fortified the last time, and with my unhappiness, a horseman I sent to conquer it at 1 strength was killed. O_O
On emperor it is interesting to decide on which 6 to eliminate. If a person can dispense with the 2 Chinas by turn 40, I think India, Persia and Russia are all easy but that leaves one more.

The case for India is mainly: it is fast and subsequently easy to take out Persia from that side attacking at least 2 cities simultaneously. Russia is also fast and somewhat natural to break a large army into two since units get in the way at Arabia. Perhaps Aleppo from Arabia with peace treaty after to nab Greece's 2 cities?

As to theocracy, it may not be the fastest idea but one thing is crystal clear: theocracy allows a person to raze cities like a demon.
Also, is waging war on Korea a good idea? They were fortified the last time, and with my unhappiness, a horseman I sent to conquer it at 1 strength was killed. O_O
I don't know. I just wanted all the free military units I could get my hands on. The 4 military CSes will net 4 horse, 2 pike and 2 xbows.
 
I tried to run this on Prince difficulty and epically failed. I tried on warlord and I conquered half of China. I searched for a strategy and found this awesome page and I plan to employ it.:) However, I'm new to Civ 5, what does "DOW" mean? Declare Open War?
 
DOW= Declaration of War.

Oh, and welcome to the forums. This is a tough scenario.
 
My way through the scenario is,

start as Silverfuturist has laid out, but I prefer to take out Uighur before Western Xia. This gets me two things:

cheap upgrades via 2nd SP, 1st SP gieves me the 1.5x XP.
the worker I get I send down to Dai Viet to build bridges and road over the rivers. Strangely enough this worker doesn't get attacked when in war with Wu. Saves me time to hit Ghandi.

Typically then game runs:
take out Jin
take out Uighur
take out Western Xia
take out Wu, I prefer to take out Pearl City last with 2 Keshiks with double hit capability (~turn 32). By that time I already have Chengdu and are marching towards India with 5 Keshiks. The other 5 that I have around turn 38 are moving to Persia.
I than need to manage (and delay)India final KITA to manage RA (between turn 45 and 50), to get towards the Rifiling.
then after taking Urench 4 keshiks move to Russia, rest finishes PErsia, Arabs and gathered forces then take Byzantium.
Oda stays till last with rifles

I take an RA with Oda, that gets me Rifling around turn 60.
I ally only Abadsisses (or simular) and Korea.
The two tile island I take with KEshiks from the coast and a swordsman. Then Keshiks move to mall island to bombard main island.

Somewhere in the 80's you can expect victory, but I believe below 80 is possible, when fighting always with smartes units, flanking etc.

from my 1st 2000 cash I buy Collosseum, Circus and 7 Scouts for garrissons. Then Armory and Keshiks till I run out of horses.

Hope this helps
 
Hats off to those who have managed to complete this on Diety! I have tried a few times and havnt managed to do it. I just keep running out of time. I can take Jin & china fairly fast but, after them I cant find a way to get Persia fast enough. They dont seem to give me the other two cities for peace. :-(

PS: I think its best to always take western Xia first so i/you can get the 2 free horses which you can upgrade giving me more units.
 
Top Bottom