Best use of jungle tiles?

Mordraer

Chieftain
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Aug 6, 2016
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So I have a stellar capital city on my newest deity effort (I am thus for 0/2 in deity games, but I am incredibly determined to master this) which resides on a jungle/hill/river tile next to a mountain. There is a solid amount of jungle around and I picked the +culture pantheon for jungle tiles. My reasoning behind this is that I am extremely close to Ghandi and I just don't see how I can compete with his religion once he founds it so I ditched faith pantheons. Take a look at my setup:
Spoiler :
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So to my questions..

1. Should I actually put a plantation on all of my cocoa jungle tiles? I have five total in two cities. It seems to me the tile is actually better left alone and should only develop the ones I need for trade. I think 3:c5food:, 1 :c5gold:, 1 :c5culture: and the eventual 2 :c5science: is better than 2:c5food:, 1:c5production:, and 2:c5gold:, right?

2. As for my other jungle tiles, should I leave them as is? Should I change any of them? Is there a different answer for the Jungle tile compared to Jungle/River compared to Jungle/river/hill compared to Jungle/hill? I hate to chop any jungle and lose that :c5science: boost down the road.

3. Am I correct in assuming that vying for religion in this game at all is somewhat pointless with Ghandi's capital being exactly 9 tiles away from mine?

4. My third city has Uluru as a workable tile. Should I even bother working it?

Thanks! With your help maybe I'll actually finally get a deity win under my belt :D
 
1. You should always trade every lux in your border on deity, unless you need the happiness from it to stay positive. That adds up to quite a bit of gold at the end and deity AI can always afford the trade. So yes, improve the cocoa.

2. Flat freshwater jungle should be converted into farm, food is always better and translate to science long term. It is better than the +2 science for sure. For the case of freshwater jungle hill, you should convert them into mines only if there are little or no other mines within 3 ring. Otherwise leave them as farms.

3. You shouldn't try for religion in that game due to no obvious good faith pantheon for capital. You won't be able to found easily anyway. Ghandi might not even found a religion if he's not piety anyway, so he doesn't matter much.

4. Uluru is worked 24/7 unless you need to go full production on that city to rush something or if you can reassign to get a citizen out faster. Actually if you have Uluru and you settled that city quickly, you can pretty much guarantee a religion if you picked One with Nature pantheon and worked Uluru full time.
 
Thank you for your advice Sclb! So pardon my naivety, but why are people in deity playthrough videos always so excited about jungle cities for science, if in fact the best way to maximize the science output of said city is to actually rid the area of jungle? Sorry I'm just trying to get a grasp on the concept so I can better understand the mechanics. It seems in my experience so far that deity is rather.. unforgiving.. :)
 
Universities give jungle tiles inside city limits 2 Science per turn, Guilds grants ability to put trading posts mostly anywhere, but the trading post DOES NOT clear off the jungle tile; so THIS worked tile, having a trading post IN a jungle AND in-range of a University brings in 2f, 2s, and at least 1g PER TURN (and the gold yield goes UP, as the tech tree and SPs mature) .

Jungle Luxuries get improved, except Bananas (unless they've been modded in AS a Luxury) .

You can NEVER have enough COPIES of Luxuries, as some AI will want/need them; so trade like there IS a tomorrow, you might be able to bleed dry a hungry, rich, and stupidly greedy AI .
 
It depends a bit on how much production you need. For example if you are playing a game going for Freedom and just having your secondary cities increase your base science for GS bulbs before purchasing parts, then it can be useful to keep jungle tiles around. You don't need a lot of production for these type of games.

If, however, your strategy requires a lot of production, then jungle tiles are simply too slow. Unfortunately there is no easy way to know how much production you need other than knowing from experience, by playing a lot of games. Sclb's guidelines more or less work. You can typically improve freshwater jungle tiles without worry. From there, if you find your production "good enough", then you can keep extra jungle tiles as jungle. Otherwise, chop as needed.
 
Thank you for your advice Sclb! So pardon my naivety, but why are people in deity playthrough videos always so excited about jungle cities for science, if in fact the best way to maximize the science output of said city is to actually rid the area of jungle? Sorry I'm just trying to get a grasp on the concept so I can better understand the mechanics. It seems in my experience so far that deity is rather.. unforgiving.. :)

Science is generated from population ( all the science buildings basically give you science based on population ).
So simple math there. Farm on river at civil service = 4 food
Jungle = 2 food

So that means if you work the farm, your will get +1 pop in say 10 turns.
If you work jungle, you get +1 pop in 15 turns

Now once your city grows, let's say you work a jungle tile.
So let's see what you yield over 30 turns:

Jungle grows in 15, then works another jungle and grows again in 15.
Farm grows in 10, works jungle, grows in 10, works another jungle for 10 turns.

Farm
t0-10 = 0s
t10-20 = 40s ( 20 from pop, 20 from jungle)
t20-30 = 100s ( 40 from pop, 40 from jungle)
total science = 140

Jungle
t0-15 = 30s (2x15)
t15-30 =90s ( 30 from pop, 60 from jungles)
total science = 120

This gap just gets wider as the game progresses.
 
Jungle = plains, so you only get 3 food 1 hammer at best from river farms, I believe. Still freshwater jungle isn't worth it and better chopped, and you can keep non freshwater jungles unless your city is lacking food/prod.
 
I don't play much Civ 5 these days but the biggest problem you have with your current setup is your capital is way too small considering the turn.
You really need to start prioritising food and growth especially in your capital. Remember that a citizen eats 2 food each so working Jungles doesn't add anything to actually improve your overall growth.

The hills adjacent to your city should be turned into farms so at civil service they can be worked for 2 food 2 production (this leaves you less reliant on working mines).
The grassland tiles around the lake/river should be turned into farms asap and worked.
Route your traderoutes into food and send them to your capital also. The forest tiles might also be sitting on grassland so check that too.
I wouldn't prioritise chopping the jungle on the river until you get the rest of the freshwater grassland/forest tiles turned into farms - mainly because chopping jungle is so slow.
 
For a jungle start growth and production can often suffer. This is why it is often the practice to clear jungle off of freshwater adjacent tiles as you'll get the maximum growth out of them via civil service bonus. You need to do this already because your capital is slowing down on growth and this is not good in any game. Clear the tiles you want to work. Clearing jungle takes extra time so you'll need an extra worker or two and no need to clear ahead of what you can work. I usually get my production in these cities from the riverside plains and from clearing off freshwater hills for farms as Sclb said. You should always develop all your luxuries, the only resource tile you don't usually clear of jungle would be bananas. That extra 7 gold or extra happiness is generally more important then keeping the jungle. That's a very nice capital and you'll still have around 10 jungle tiles to keep after removing some for farms, so enjoy! :)
 
farm
t0-10 = 0s
t10-20 = 40s ( 20 from pop, 20 from jungle)
t20-30 = 100s ( 40 from pop, 40 from jungle)
total science = 140

jungle
t0-15 = 30s (2x15)
t15-30 =90s ( 30 from pop, 60 from jungles)
total science = 120

this gap just gets wider as the game progresses.

40 + 40 = 100?
 
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