BUFFY & HOF Mod Releases

I would like to be able to see a full list of lightbulb techs, in order to better decide if I want to lightbulb now, wait for a particular tech, or use the GP for something else.

I calculate the order from the flavors assigned to each tech--just as the game does. I think I could put that information into a hover rather than showing the standard great person hover which I only showed for lack of anything better. Now that I've learned how to do hovers in Python without needing a custom DLL, this is a good case for using it.
 
Just tested the food thing, I was wrong. Excess food does remain even if there wasn't growth. Will check later what happens on a 4 or 5 citizen whip, see if it's possible to get a city to grow a size with a per turn food deficit, thanks to the food storage being massively overloaded. Should be.

Numbers I got:

pre-whip, size 3, 38/39 food

post-whip: size 2, 38/36 food, +5

next turn: size 3, 7/39 food.


I calculate the order from the flavors assigned to each tech--just as the game does. I think I could put that information into a hover rather than showing the standard great person hover which I only showed for lack of anything better. Now that I've learned how to do hovers in Python without needing a custom DLL, this is a good case for using it.

Sounds good. Would be simpler to check that way for the player too, compared to going to check a list, as presumably it could exclude everything you knew already, and simply show the next x techs, in order that it would prefer to lightbulb, and possibly grey out the ones it wants to do but can't yet. i.e. Compass ranks above more useful techs for a scientist, so you need to lightbulb before compass is researchable, or research it yourself to move to the next thing.
 
Likewise. I'm 99% sure that excess food on growth goes into the new storage, i.e. if you're 59/60, with a +10 food, the next turn you'll be 9/80. But I don't think (though haven't checked) that excess food without growth does the same thing. i.e. you're 59/60 with +10, you whip, and you're now either 59/40 or 40/40. So next turn, are you 29/60 or 10/60? I'll go and test it in a minute.
I also like to whip like this and start a worker or settler next turn. That way your city GROWS while building a worker / settler ... even though it stored no food :).

Re tech preferences ... http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php

We should dump that in the pedia.
 
I calculate the order from the flavors assigned to each tech--just as the game does. I think I could put that information into a hover rather than showing the standard great person hover which I only showed for lack of anything better. Now that I've learned how to do hovers in Python without needing a custom DLL, this is a good case for using it.
This would be great for a hover. I would include the invalid techs too and the reason they are invalid (ie pre-req not researched). That way, the player can know to avoid researching X if they want to lightbulb Y.
 
Have thought about timing of whipping, and looked a little bit at the maths of 1 population = x shields. I need to do a bit more though, it doesn't seem to be a completely linear case of 1 pop is always x shields, so 2 pop is 2x, etc.

Seems that in order to get cash, you need the shield overflow to be bigger than the shields for whatever you are building, which is doable either on small builds like warriors, or via chopping. i.e. you have a library at 120/135 (all numbers pulled from butt, as per normal) shields. So to whip it up to 135, it takes 1 pop, that gives you 80 shields, so there's 65 overflow. Before the whip though, you chop a forest for 90 more shields. They don't appear until the next turn, so you can still whip, and now the overflow is 155 shields, bigger than the 135 of the library. So you'll get some cash, instead of all the overflow going to shields. At least, that is my first impression of the mechanic. Need to do some more research.


As for when to whip, in the absence of other considerations, it seems there will always be the most benefit from whipping on the last turn before completing the build. Say you're size 7, 10 turns from finishing something. You whip, then you spend 10 turns at size 6 working on the next something. Or you wait 9 turns at size 7, then you whip, and spend 1 turn at size 6 working on the next something. You get the same shields from the whip either way, but you've got 9 more turns of an extra citizen to work a tile.

Of course, other considerations make a big difference. i.e. whip earlier means 9 more turns of benefit from the thing you whipped. It means unhappiness drops again 9 turns earlier. It means you can whip something else straight away. Plus there's no point staying at size 7 if you have an unhappy citizen, or lots of unimproved tiles to work, because then the production of that 7th citizen doesn't actually make up for the cost of feeding them. So you want to whip earlier.
 
Have thought about timing of whipping...


Your numbers look a bit off, but your reasoning is good.
There are a lot of essays written on this. Look for them.


The maths are very complex. The easy (aka invalid) rules are
-whip your granary asap
-don't whip your 1:food:3:hammers: tiles
-don't whip for 1 pop
- it is sometimes better to whip just before a pop growth, sometimes better to whip just after pop growth, it's never optimal to whip with a 75% full granary

Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this in this thread :blush:
 
Your numbers look a bit off, but your reasoning is good.
There are a lot of essays written on this. Look for them.

Yeah. But I have a tendency to not trust the numbers unless I crunch them myself. So I may as well crunch them myself to start with. :crazyeye:

Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this in this thread :blush:

I blame ruff_hi for mentioning it first. ;)

But yeah, should take it to another thread to get in depth about it.
 
Why don't we take it to my Whip-Assist thread.

BTW, :hammers: from population is a linear formula. The variance between populations is due to rounding from modifiers from OR, Forge, traits, resources, etc. Also, if you have no :hammers: invested yet, it's double, same (or 150%?) for Wonder.

As stated above, there's a Strategy Article that covers the mechanics and formulas in depth. In fact, it's probably in BUFFY's Sevopedia.
 
EFool and I went back and forth about when was the best time to whip (finish quickest for least population, maximize overflow, other?). If you can articulate when you think is best, then you might see it in a future release of BUG / BUFFY.

There are little tick marks on the production bar that show when the required population decreases. Note: There is a bug with those tick marks when no production is invested in the build.

To go along with the other response you received to this post, it really does depend. Thus, this brings me to the question of is it possible to either A) Show both in a way that will not clutter things up and will be easy to read or B) Make it an option in the BUFFY Options menu that lets the player decide what they would rather see (maximize :hammers: overflow OR decrease the impact on city population). Obviously option A would be ideal because you don't necessarily always want max overflow, for instance. I'm aware that neither option would likely be easy to code, I'm just throwing them out there as suggestions.

LOVE the mod by the way.
 
I think I could put that information (preferred bulb order) into a hover rather than showing the standard great person hover.

Done.

  • The GP's icon shows the order of all techs they will bulb.
  • The current icon shows the order of remaining techs.
  • The future icon shows the order of remaining techs minus those already in the queue.
 
I went back to play a Vanilla Game and I am getting the red not valid for HOF play message after loading 1.74.04 ansd trying to play. I havn't changed anything in ages and am following the guidlines as far as I can tell. Anyone know what is wrong?
 

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Vista fixes have been done for ages, which is why this surprised me because I have used 1.74.04 plenty of times before on this laptop w/o problems. I will run asset checker. Thanks.

EDIT:


Ran asset checker and got no vanilla errors.????? (But I did get 20 errors with shader files on BTS, which has been working fine)???
 
Vista fixes have been done for ages, which is why this surprised me because I have used 1.74.04 plenty of times before on this laptop w/o problems. I will run asset checker. Thanks.

EDIT:


Ran asset checker and got no vanilla errors.????? (But I did get 20 errors with shader files on BTS, which has been working fine)???
Those would affect vanilla. I am not even sure they matter for BTS.

Did you check the Victory Screen, Settings tab? What exactly is the error you are getting?
 
I will check the exact message in a bit, but it was definitely an asset error. What are you refering to when you say "Those"?
 
How do I fix them? Just reload?
I thought your problem was with Vanilla? BTS wouldn't affect Vanilla.

I think the BTS shader files were on an early patch but not 3.19. I would check a BTS save against the "Start File" option on the HOF Site before I would worry about them.
 
The Settings page says that the "assets are different from a standard install." Should I just reinstall?
 
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