How to play without tundra, desert and jungle?

Are you serious? Worst start BY FAR is a huge field of plains! Sure you might get 1 or 2 horses in that field, but seriously .................

And you don't even have to gain Desert Folklore/Petra to see the value of a typical Floodplain river through desert that typically also has a lot of gold and/or incense.

Jungle river tiles = good. Jungle tiles that you can possibly save until you get a Market and take Rationalism = awesome.

Worst tiles are Plains and Tundra.
 
No I'm not serious, i was kidding
and this thread will get locked by mods anyway and all my posts will be deleted so please stop replying
 
Unresolved said:
Desert tiles(excluding plain ones) are exactly the same as their grassland counterparts. Desert Folklore and Petra just make them amazing.
Click to expand...

Petra doesn't work on floodplains. So, we're just talking about hills, really. And again, you have to spend a religion bonus and build a wonder, which isn't that easy except on low levels, which means that you need to go Liberty, beeline Currency, and spend your great engineer on it. While your're getting Currency you're not getting any of the other essential low-level techs, giving up on the Great Library and having a good military which leaves you vulnerable.

I'm not saying it's not an interesting strategy, and if you have a good deserty location near your capital maybe it's worth going for it for variety. But it's hardly broken.
 
Wodan said:
Petra doesn't work on floodplains. So, we're just talking about hills, really. And again, you have to spend a religion bonus and build a wonder, which isn't that easy except on low levels, which means that you need to go Liberty, beeline Currency, and spend your great engineer on it. While your're getting Currency you're not getting any of the other essential low-level techs, giving up on the Great Library and having a good military which leaves you vulnerable.

I'm not saying it's not an interesting strategy, and if you have a good deserty location near your capital maybe it's worth going for it for variety. But it's hardly broken.
Click to expand...

You greatly overestimate the difficulty of building Petra. I find it easy to get Petra in my capitol through Immortal. All you need is 4+ hills and Petra makes your city amazing. You don't even need to sacrifice your military to get Petra since you should be getting 6 CB's before you ever reach Currency anyways. As for the GL, it's nearly unobtainable on Immortal, making it a non-issue. For Emperor and below, it's easy enough to chain GL->NC->Petra because you don't really need an army at all and the AI is not aggressive when building wonders.
 
I got Petra twice on Emperor in my second city, and only tried twice ever so i dont think it's very hard. Although i set everything to production for over 20 turns
 
Desert and Jungle = faith and science. Where would we be without them? Back on the savannah like a primitive ape! :D
 
Cissnei said:
I got Petra twice on Emperor in my second city, and only tried twice ever so i dont think it's very hard. Although i set everything to production for over 20 turns
Click to expand...

Well, a huge part of it is whether or not one of the other civs HAS a proper start on desert or not, and then if they have the peace and quiet to build it in a timely fashion. If a civ is deep in a war with one or more other civs, it might not even try to build it, even though it could. On the flip side, I've seen too many cases where dufus civs build Petra just because they had ONE lousy desert tile in their entire 3-ring, and that one was a flood plain tile! :rolleyes:
 
Smokeybear said:
Well, a huge part of it is whether or not one of the other civs HAS a proper start on desert or not, and then if they have the peace and quiet to build it in a timely fashion. If a civ is deep in a war with one or more other civs, it might not even try to build it, even though it could. On the flip side, I've seen too many cases where dufus civs build Petra just because they had ONE lousy desert tile in their entire 3-ring, and that one was a flood plain tile! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Especially on immortal and up, when often the AI beelines it. I've seen it go by turn 70! The fastest I built it was turn 65 after using a free tech on mathematics after getting a GL on immortal with the Incas (popped pottery and writing ruins during the first ten turns). OTOH, like you said, I built it around late 70s or early 80s on deity when two desert-start AIs went to war.
 
Cissnei said:
to be honest i care alot about how my starting position look
Click to expand...

To be honest, I do too. But I've come to equate a beautiful starting position with one that also best fits the needs of the civ I've chosen to play, and the victory condition I've chosen to pursue. Sometimes, a good chunk of jungle or desert can be a very beautiful thing as part of my future civic plans. On the flipside, a big swath of nothing but plains or grassland can be ugly to me indeed, if it doesn't also contain enough other significant stuff for city growth that makes it worthwhile to plant on.
 
Cissnei said:
This is what I prefer my position to look like http://i.imgur.com/O3sq8T9.jpg
I made this screen long time ago @@ Really beautiful~ I wouldn't build any mines and just put GP on hills
Click to expand...

Without any mines, you'd be mighty short of production there. That's what hills are for, after all. What do you mean by 'GP' on the hills?
 
I mean special Improvements from Great People instead of building mines. I could build alot of lumber mills on forest too
But it won't happen because i would have to restart million times to have this starting location T_T
 
Wodan said:
I don't buy that.

If you have to waste a religion bonus AND build a wonder just to make those tiles not suck, then those were sucky tiles. In addition to cost of the religion and the wonder, you're paying a pretty hefty opportunity cost.

The correct comparison for desert+folklore+petra is not normal tiles (grass, plains, hills) by themselves, but normal tiles+[your choice: messenger of the gods, goddess of love, etc.]+[your choice: hanging gardens, great mosque, etc.]
Click to expand...

Plain desert are bad tiles, but Desert Folklore makes Floodplains and Hills extremely powerful. The faith that you haul in from Desert Folklore gives you a very powerful source of faith early game from tiles you're going to work anyway(again, excluding normal Desert tiles). And it's just a Pantheon, half the time you end up using those for a faith generation anyway :p

Petra on the other hand is more difficult to get, especially on higher difficulties + if an AI has a desert start. One time on Deity I managed to get a sick desert start as Egypt with Mt. Sinai next to my capital(~3 tiles from the starting location) and ofc Petra went turn ~55 :( . Of course with opportunity cost you also have to consider Petra does give +6 culture at Archeology and a free Amphitheater(which 100 hammers in itself).
 
This screenshot was taken when i tried playing Rome on the desert for fun (Emperor difficulty)
http://i.imgur.com/8YTvhoD.jpg
I could build any unit available in 1 turn lol~ I think that oasis saved me at beginning
But i dislike desert. I almost always play Asian civilizations
I also just dislike the look of desert
 
Cissnei said:
I mean special Improvements from Great People instead of building mines. I could build alot of lumber mills on forest too
But it won't happen because i would have to restart million times to have this starting location T_T
Click to expand...

Great People are best placed on grassland or plains tiles, so they can at least get some food from them to offset what the citizen eats that must be placed on a GP tile. Putting a bunch of GP improvements on no-food hill tiles, will seriously impact your food supply and stunt your city's growth. Combine that with them already being stunted in production from not building mines on any of the hills, and you got a very weak city. Lumbermills don't provide nearly the production that mines do, and don't even get 3 hammers on them until fairly late in the game.

If you want to have good cities that help you actually win a game, then take a screenshot of the pristine landscape around it when you first plant your city there, print it off in brilliant color, and tape it to your computer so you can see what it used to look like before you turned it into something useful with the proper improvements.
 
Cissnei said:
This screenshot was taken when i tried playing Rome on the desert for fun (Emperor difficulty)
http://i.imgur.com/8YTvhoD.jpg
I could build any unit available in 1 turn lol~ I think that oasis saved me at beginning
But i dislike desert. I almost always play Asian civilizations
I also just dislike the look of desert
Click to expand...

That's about the most awful Petra location I've ever seen. No river, no floodplain, and half the desert tiles inside your 3-ring are empty tiles without the Petra wonder. I wouldn't even dream of bothering to put a city there myself. You must have moved your starting settler over to that location from somewhere else, as I can't imagine the map generator plopping you in such a horrible location- especially Rome.
 
LOL Smokeybear being so nice to me as always ^-^
yes I moved the settler, and there was no food plains. And I dont think putting Great people on hills is so bad. On picture there is alot of grassland and pastures/camps location (i would probably have religion with Goddess of hunt) so it wouldn't be a problem... I lost alot of games because i cared too much about my starting location look and didnt improve tiles properly w
 
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