Double culture points

neptun

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Dec 15, 2005
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Norway
After a while, it seems wonders and improvements gives double culture points. I've seen this on Stonehenge wich originally gives 8 and library wich gives 2 culture points each turn. After a while they give 16 and 4 respectively.

Does anyone know why? I cannot remember having read about this anywhere.
 
In civ3 the culture you got from a building doubled after 1000 years, maybe it's the same in civ4?
 
I noticed that too, in a Normal speed game. The most probable explanation I could think of was just worded by Draconian.
 
neptun said:
Does anyone know why? I cannot remember having read about this anywhere.

Because it was programmed to work this way :p

Take a look to these line of codes from the CIV4BuildingInfos xml file:

Code:
{BuildingInfo}
{BuildingClass}BUILDINGCLASS_PYRAMID{/BuildingClass}
...
{ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges}
	{iCommerce}0{/iCommerce}
	{iCommerce}0{/iCommerce}
	{iCommerce}6{/iCommerce}
{/ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges}
{CommerceChangeDoubleTimes}
	{iCommerce}0{/iCommerce}
	{iCommerce}0{/iCommerce}
	{iCommerce}1000{/iCommerce}
{/CommerceChangeDoubleTimes}

The third iCommerce value represents culture. As you can see it doubles its value after 1000 years. It is the same for most (all?) buildings that generate culture.
 
I was a bit surprised, too, to find out that in civ4, too, culture doubled after time. Don't know the exact time intervals, yet. Anyone does?
 
1000 years (which means variable amounts of turns, depending on how early in the game you are).

Seems that this can be different now from building to building though.
 
I don't really like the 1000 years method used. I'd much rather it be, say, 200 turns or less, maybe with the option of doubling multiple times.

Anything built past 1100 AD never gets to be considered a piece of "history" like other culture buildings. It's quite possible that some RL Americans structures have reached their "double" time already.

The faster ideas spread, the faster culture spreads! Modern culture exists in many forms which streak across the world at blinding speeds, like internet memes.

I don't think the Civ4 game designers properly appreciate modern culture and just assume old = cultural.
 
I don't really like the 1000 years method used. I'd much rather it be, say, 200 turns or less, maybe with the option of doubling multiple times.

Anything built past 1100 AD never gets to be considered a piece of "history" like other culture buildings. It's quite possible that some RL Americans structures have reached their "double" time already.

The faster ideas spread, the faster culture spreads! Modern culture exists in many forms which streak across the world at blinding speeds, like internet memes.

I don't think the Civ4 game designers properly appreciate modern culture and just assume old = cultural.

Well, they did include the whopping +50% bonus from broadcasting towers. And, for RL American culture, they have Hollywood, Rock n' Roll, and Broadway, which actually double everything. (So it also doubles, in a way)

As an American myself, I don't think Americans quite realize what it's like to be living in a place that's been around for centuries. The American identity is fresh in comparison.


TL;DR: The internet can be a vehicle for culture, but just carrying it around doesn't necessarily give it cultural depth.

It's true that culture exists in many forms. That's just the thing about the internet and memes, it usually comes in one form. There's not a lot of variance. Everybody knows the same memes. It's like having 50 copies of a book vs 1000 copies of a book. Just because there are more, doesn't necessarily mean it's "more culture." (Not to say the internet isn't cultural — it definitely can and does produce that rich variety in some areas. It's too soon to say how much.)
It needs to have multiple dimensions. Internet memes are usually rather one-sided. They're usually comedic, or sarcastic, cynical, sometimes emotional. But they don't really undergo the transformation that other symbols do. European thought has gone from Medieval chivalry to Rationalism to Romanticism to the "ehh-Romanticists" (Heine) to Realism to Surrealism... All referencing each other, and referencing the same pool of symbols and landmarks. So the original symbol takes different dimensions. Memes...they just disappear when they lose popularity. It's not about how fast ideas spread—it's about how fast they change and evolve, and what meaningful impacts they leave with every permutation.
 
Continues to amaze me how people even find these ancient threads to bump them. (almost) 11 years? That must be some kind of record.
 
I also love the fact that the TL;DR section is much longer than the rest :lol:
 
What's interesting is that if a Building doesn't double in Culture, then we simply see the following entry in CIV4BuildingInfos.xml:
<CommerceChangeDoubleTimes/>

I have placed asterisks "*" by some of the note-worthy Buildings.

For example:
Palace* (2 Culture)
Walls
Barracks
Stable
Bunker
Bomb Shelter
Granary
Aqueduct
Hospital
Recycling Centre
Lighthouse
Harbour
Customs House
Drydock
Airport
Forge
Factory
Coal Plant
Hydro Plant
Nuclear Plant
Industrial Park
Public Transportation
Academy* (4 Culture)
Observatory
Laboratory
Colosseum
Broadcast Tower
Market
Grocer
Bank
Supermarket
Courthouse
Jail
Levee
Intelligence Agency
National Security
Cathedrals*
Hermitage
Wall Street
Ironworks
West Point
Scotland Yard
Kremlin
Broadway
Rock N Roll
Hollywood
The Three Gorges Dam
The Pentagon
The Space Elevator
Military Academy* (3 Culture)

Unique Buildings may not always follow what the base Building does. For example, the over-powered Incan Terrace (a Granary replacement) does double its Culture after 1000 years:
<CommerceChangeDoubleTimes>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>1000</iCommerce>

Also, worth noting is that the bonus 5 Culture from one's State Religion's Temples and Monasteries when owning The Sistine Chapel Wonder will also double after 1000 years, since those Building types double their entire Culture, which includes the bonus Culture.

Contrast that point with one's State Religion's Cathedrals, which don't have their bonus 5 Culture doubling, since the Building type itself does not double its Culture.


Another interesting point is that Espionage-producing Buildings are listed above as not doubling their Culture. So, the "No Espionage" option in the Beyond the Sword Expansion, where Espionage Points get converted into Culture, suffers from the inability for those Buildings' Espionage-turned-Culture to double after 1000 years.
 
And what about events? Does the culture of a colosseum and courthouse (and maybe more buildings) coming from an event, double too?
 
And what about events? Does the culture of a colosseum and courthouse (and maybe more buildings) coming from an event, double too?
Judging by how a Cathedral-type of Building does not have its Culture double due to the "self-closing" XML tag of <CommerceChangeDoubleTimes/>, and seeing how Courthouses and Colosseums are in the list of Buildings with the same self-closing XML tag, I think that it's safe to say that those Buildings' bonus Culture will not double.

As for other Buildings, check to see if they are in the list or not.

I think that my list was exhaustive.
 
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