How do you deal with barbarians on marathon speed?

enkryptor · Apr 12, 2016

I'm a casual gamer, playing Civ sometimes. After a few Civ 5 sessions I've found Epic speed quite enjoyable, and then tried it with Civ 4.

In a new large world on Epic speed I died from barbarians on ~60 turn - a four archer squad captured my both cities when I barely had a warrior there.

As far as I know, barbarians start to spawn at 50 turn, regardless of the game speed. If that is correct, how do you deal with them on marathon?

Lexicus · Apr 12, 2016

It sounds like you might've gotten the Vedic Horde random event, which just means you got super unlucky. Barbarians usually don't roll in stacks and they don't usually attack so early. The "horde of barbarians" event (which can spawn archers, a bit later axemen, a bit after that horse archers) random event is the exception.

elitetroops · Apr 12, 2016

enkryptor said:
As far as I know, barbarians start to spawn at 50 turn, regardless of the game speed. If that is correct, how do you deal with them on marathon?

This is not correct. It is dependent on both difficulty and game speed. And a certain number of cities need to be founded in the world before they start appearing.

DanF5771 said:
Barb Animals start appearing after game turn 5 (hard coded, independent of game speed). As mentioned earlier the game stops spawning them if both of the following two conditions are met:

The average number of (non-barb) cities per player must be >= 1.5.
.

A certain number of game turns must have elapsed (depending on difficulty [iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed] and game speed [iBarbPercent], marathon is special with 400%).

So in a quick deity game animals are usually only created in just 1 IBT (5->6).

When the era of barb animals is over, the existing creatures are not eradicated in 1 major extinction event. Instead, the game kills off 1 animal per turn until they are all gone and will insert regular barb units (Warriors, Archers, ...) as they are "needed" during the next IBT (can be > 1 unit/turn!, ALL required units are created immediately).

What happened in your game sounds like some weird event though. Except maybe if you are playing deity level (not sure about AI expansion timings there on Epic speed). They shouldn't enter your borders until the amount of cities in the world is greater than 3/civilization.

Tatran · Apr 12, 2016

Build the Great Wall.

Tristan_C · Apr 12, 2016

Usually spawnbusting relieves barb pressure enough.

The barb situation is so bad on extreme settings that spawnbusting alone is insufficient, and I have even gotten some conquest victories when all the AI civs were killed. Not very exciting games, though:

Build Great Wall or plant a warrior at an isthmus to block ai scripting
Put a small lead weight on the Enter key
Conquest victory

The thread linked above by elitetroops (bloop) gives solid info on barb AI.

enkryptor · Apr 13, 2016

What is spawnbusting? Using unit vision to prevent barbs from spawning?

Lexicus · Apr 13, 2016

enkryptor said:
What is spawnbusting? Using unit vision to prevent barbs from spawning?

Correct. IIRC barbs can't spawn on tiles you have vision on (whether it's from cultural borders or units) and also can'ts spawn in a 5x5 square centered on any tile occupied by your unit.

elmurcis · Apr 13, 2016

Spawn-bust, Great Wall, diagonal (protect empire border corners, so can access middle part too) protecting strong units (axe/chariot), map with more Ai than original, early Archery (not optimal ofcourse but sometimes that is best way because copper or horses can be pillaged if can't cover all sides of empire... and than you sit there with just warriors... even agaisnt archers thats rage quit)...
But you know there is solution....

Spoiler :

rbj2001 · Apr 18, 2016

Tristan_C said:
plant a warrior at an isthmus to block ai scripting

I don't understand what this means or why it would work... :confused:

HughFran · Apr 18, 2016

The Great Wall is a wonder I always attempt to build in Civ 4 due to the nature of barbarians being able to take cities with more ease than in Civ 5. I have many (not-so)great memories of hoardes of barbs showing up on my border (I loved playing with raging barbs enabled) only to be repelled by the Great Wall. It was very satisfying to build this wonder.

Mechanicalsalvation · Apr 18, 2016

I like to play with raging barbs too and I find they are quite predictable. It takes little skill and experience and you may find that the nightmare is turning into a mild drama.

Lexicus · Apr 18, 2016

I never build TGW. I find it's easy enough to keep barbarians at bay with units. *shrugs* YMMV thoiugh. I don't play raging barbs so...

Drakarska · Apr 18, 2016

I do play with RB active. While a lot of players say that archery is a wasted tech, I disagree if your playing epic-mara speed on a huge+ map. If your playing giant or greater ( and depending on mod in question), then Arch becomes a requirement. Use your promo's to augment your barb busters, and you should do fine.

Civ Vicious · Apr 18, 2016

I never actually play with raging barbarians.

I think I'll start up a game with that on. (Is there that much difference?)

Quite a few civs have died early in my games, by being taken out by Barbarians. But it's normally when they haven't had access to Iron.

Pangaea · Apr 18, 2016

rbj2001 said:
I don't understand what this means or why it would work...

Not sure why it works, why scripting kind of goes out the window, but below is an example

Had to move all units out of "Fort Wood" a couple of times, and keep them out, until Mehmed's units finally tried to assault it. Park units in that one tile, and apparently the AI can't "see" what is on the other side because it can't path to it.

Drakarska · Apr 19, 2016

Civ Vicious said:
I never actually play with raging barbarians.

I think I'll start up a game with that on. (Is there that much difference?)

Quite a few civs have died early in my games, by being taken out by Barbarians. But it's normally when they haven't had access to Iron.

Um, lol, yes. VIP mod for example, has a 32 max civ on a giant map. MARA speed and RB active, by the time I hit classical, 10 civs had been ghosted ( Rome, Zulu, and Greece among them). Hit the MA, and another 12 got spanked into oblivion. All this was on MON difficulty.
Granted, I haven't played plain BTS in ages, but mod wise, especially on Epic-Mara speeds, It's down right deadly.

If you want a real challenge, DL ROM AND2, have just you as the only civ, and then tik off RB and barbarian world. Definitely give you an edge of your seat thrill.

Tristan_C · Apr 20, 2016

rbj2001 said:
I don't understand what this means or why it would work...

x x x x x
x . . . x
x . C . x
x . . . x
x x x x x

In theory, a city surrounded by a perimeter of warriors cannot be a barb target. In practice, you can exploit this on certain rare occasions with the help of seacoast and mountains (too many warriors otherwise) to stake out a large, barb-free territory.

Any tile improvements that lie along or inside this warrior perimeter cannot not be targeted. The warriors themselves do not appear to get targeted on purpose; the script for wilderness barbarians looks for improvements and cities to attack. Barb units might pass by your perimeter on their way to some other civ, and will snipe at your warriors if they make an ad hoc courage roll.

lindsay40k · Apr 20, 2016

Use them for target practice. Get a half dozen Axeman promoted to CRIII and one to Woodsman III. Then march on a Holy City.

Top tip: have a Spearman or Archer banzai charge an axeman to reduce its health before risking your 8XP guy you've invested time in.

If you're AGG or PRO, you can build a Heroic Epic without ever going to war.

Tristan_C · Apr 20, 2016

In fact you don't even need to be AGG or PRO, they give extra promos as opposed to "Experience Levels"

Ulenspiegel · May 18, 2016

Tristan_C said:
In fact you don't even need to be AGG or PRO, they give extra promos as opposed to "Experience Levels"

But you need a level 4 unit to be alowed to build the HE.

How do you solve this issue without going to war?

How do you deal with barbarians on marathon speed?

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