AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

JosEPh_II said:

If I had my way Pacifism would be totally removed, Culture restored to it's original BtS standing. And the same would happen to the Slavery Civic as well. And REV would be kept as a Modmod and Never put into the Core of RoM/AND. That's how I feel about it and always have. But I don't have my way so I peck at the edges.
JosEPh

Click to expand...

I disagree on those points. I think REV adds a very interesting complexity; I really love that you hjave to take care not only about national stability but also local in each city, and that the instability/stability can be modified by a great number of very modifiers, like for example negative stability from non-state religion(which in turn only applies negatively with certain civics).

For Pacifism the -75% military prod. and +100% war is exactly like I think a pacifist country would/should be. However it would be nice if the old war unhappy mechanism from Civ1 could be incorporated into this (military units outside cities create +1 unhappy for the units home-city), just that this could be instead create some unhappiness for outside borders(like +0.1 unhappiness spread among all cities per unit outside of borders or something like that, if possible to implement). Also having to deal with +100% war unhappy in the case of a defensive war in your homelands, feels very unfair and unrealistic; I mean that would be the one scenario where not even a pacifist society would be unhappy with its government for being at war.

Jayman1000 said:

However it would be nice if the old war unhappy mechanism from Civ1 could be incorporated into this (military units outside cities create +1 unhappy for the units home-city), just that this could be instead create some unhappiness for outside borders(like +0.1 unhappiness spread among all cities per unit outside of borders or something like that, if possible to implement)

Click to expand...

This shouldn't be too hard to implement, at least the cities part. IIRC under Monarchy you get +1 for every unit stationed in a city. IIRC in some previous version with modern civics like democracy you were getting +1 for every unit IN a city. Moreover, you spend more gold for units outside your borders, so the mechanism isn't too different.

We will agree to disagree then Jayman.

Someday you will come to realize the While REV gives You the player "very interesting complexity" it does not do so for the AI. It's been proven over and over that REV destroys vibrant aggressive AI Civs. So yes, REV does intrigue the player And allows the player another means to consume crippled AI Civs without real fighting.

Koshling and others of the C2C team have worked hard on the AI to be better with handling and using REV. But still REV is reported to take down the AI and shatter AI empires into mini cakewalks. The player gets to have his cake and eat it too, but not the AI. Even with added AI coding to help the AI cope. Koshling is no slouch when it come to coding AI. And AND2.0 doesn't contain all the AI work done by Koshling for REV that I'm aware of.

IF REV ever was made to ONLY affect the Player but Never the AI it would indeed give "very interesting complexity". But then players would complain that the game was too hard. Or too easy depending upon the view. As they have done over and over again for the Past 5+ years.

JosEPh

Found a Bug in an Event. Theft of Treasury, if you select chase down and bribe ppl to capture theives dead or alive, you get +1 Happy in Capital and +1 Happy for 5 turns. You also Lose 1/2 your treasury. But you are supposed to get a Spy in the Capital. You don't get the spy.

JosEPh

Tech bug in SVN 608.

It shows you being able to go from Ritualism to Slavery as first 2 Tech's, but when you actually click on that path, it goes.

1. Ritualism
2. Hunting
3. Slavery

Even though there is a line linking Slavery and Ritualism, and Hunting is not shown as a pre-requisite.

Mysticism and Naturopathy both are researchable from Ritualism, but slavery is not.

I am using the Babylonian Civilization, which starts with Roads and Agriculture.

Previously when starting with Ritualism, I'm sure I was able to immediately research slavery.

Immortal level is being used.

2nd bug, I'd like Messaging left on by default, Alt-M has to be checked on by the player in bug options, its not automatically on. Its in the bug alerts tab.

IPEX-731BA5DD06 said:

Tech bug in SVN 608.

Click to expand...

Where and how do you see that the SVN is 608?

JosEPh_II said:

Someday you will come to realize the While REV gives You the player "very interesting complexity" it does not do so for the AI.

Click to expand...

Okay I'll play a lot more to see how it plays out, I guess you have much experience from playing with Rev from what you write

IPEX-731BA5DD06 said:

Tech bug in SVN 608.

It shows you being able to go from Ritualism to Slavery as first 2 Tech's, but when you actually click on that path, it goes.

1. Ritualism
2. Hunting
3. Slavery

Even though there is a line linking Slavery and Ritualism, and Hunting is not shown as a pre-requisite.

Mysticism and Naturopathy both are researchable from Ritualism, but slavery is not.

I am using the Babylonian Civilization, which starts with Roads and Agriculture.

Previously when starting with Ritualism, I'm sure I was able to immediately research slavery.

Immortal level is being used.

Click to expand...

Look at "AND" & "OR" prerequisites. Slavery requires Ritualism OR Hunting. Tech pathing doesn't know what you want to do. If you select "Interstellar Travel" while you're in the ancient era, it will choose a path but it might not be the one you're looking for. It should choose the shortest one. But I've checked and if I have Ritualism I can select Slavery without having to research Hunting. And if I have Hunting I can research Slavery without having to research Ritualism. Main thing is that you already have to possess Ritualism before researching Slavery. There's nothing you can do about it, if select a not-directly-researchable tech, you have to go down the path that's automatically selected.

Jayman1000 said:

Where and how do you see that the SVN is 608?

Click to expand...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12175344&postcount=43
Released yesterday to fix a bug in my previous fix in 607.

Also about Revolution, just play on. In my latest experiences AI didn't have problems with revolution. They do had revolutions but the strongest nations are often AI nations. Something that I'm considering to enhance Rev is to make rev harder for humans and easier for AI, but I'll have to do some test.

JosEPh_II said:

Found a Bug in an Event. Theft of Treasury, if you select chase down and bribe ppl to capture theives dead or alive, you get +1 Happy in Capital and +1 Happy for 5 turns. You also Lose 1/2 your treasury. But you are supposed to get a Spy in the Capital. You don't get the spy.

JosEPh

Click to expand...

Do you get a spy UNIT or do you get a spy as a citizen in your city? Have you checked this? I suppose it's the second option, check if you have a spy citizen.

I thought of that too but it was late and I had left the game. Will check it today.

Edit: I was wrong again, dagnab it! Yes I got a Spy, in fact a super specialist spy.

So no bug, nothing to see here but a !

JosEPh

Jayman1000 said:

Okay I'll play a lot more to see how it plays out, I guess you have much experience from playing with Rev from what you write

Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think Rev is SO bad. To tell the truth, I think that bad experiences with Rev have A LOT to do with balancing. In every game of AND before rev>590 or in every revision of C2C (up to date, I think), there are problems with civs crumbling on themselves because of revolutions. But the problem, in my opinion, is not Rev mod in itself: the problem is that AI can't find a way to face revolutions because they don't get any benefits from wonders, buildings and so on because AI isn't able to build them all: wonders especially, since it was way too easy for a human player to build them all and leave almost none to the AI. This, consequently, makes impossible for AI to face revolutions. In the lastest SVN revisions, AI is more capable to build everything. In fact, for example in my last game (I'm currently just starting transhuman era), a single AI civ has built more wonders than me, and I'm struggling to keep its pace in techs/wonders/army. And there are 2 other civs which are close to us. And neither of them has problems with revolutions, althoug some other smaller civs had them.
So my thought is that most of the revolutions problem faced by AI are not caused by rev in itself, but by poor balance. A way to solve this would be to give less penalty revolution to AI, especially to smaller civs; actually, I'm planning to work on this problem when I'm done with other improvements and bugs I'm currently working on.

Jayman1000 said:

Okay I'll play a lot more to see how it plays out, I guess you have much experience from playing with Rev from what you write

Click to expand...

Many players love and defend REV. When it was 1st introduced it was The Mod to add/merge into every other mod. It added a new layer of complexity. It was supported by some of the best Modders on this board. It therefore Must be Good. But it had a flaw in it's armor. It inevitably would destroy the better AI challengers to the player.

Now many players will say that's okay, it wrecks my empire too. But as you get better at handling it the AI does not. And as I said Koshling has done wonders to help the AI handle REV but even that is still not enough. Phungus the author of LoR and a member of the REV team used to get very upset with me when I pointed this out. But I'm still in the minority over REV's usage and usability.

JosEPh

JosEPh_II said:

And as I said Koshling has done wonders to help the AI handle REV but even that is still not enough.

Click to expand...

I'm having a look at improvements in AI behaviour that I can import from C2C; it will take a while, probably. But my previous point stands anyway: C2C isn't fairly balanced, although I admint it's a couple of months that I haven't tried it again; and if it's not fairly balanced, AI doesn't have a single chance to handle revolutions. Just making the game more balanced can improve a lot the gameplay; for example, I remember people complaining that AI almost never use nukes or bombers. In my current game there's a nuclear war going on between 2 of the strongest AI players; it never happened before just because AI wasn't able to build units because the game was unbalanced in production. Now it's better, especially thanks to your boost for Forge, Foundry, Factory, etc both AI and human players are able to build what they need, included wonders and buildings that can oppose the revolutionary spirit. It's not by chance that major civs don't have revolution problems while smaller civs that can't make it to build wonders/buildings are often facing revolutions. Hence my idea to nerf a bit revolutionary spirit for smaller civs.

45°38'N-13°47'E;12177797 said:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12175344&postcount=43
Released yesterday to fix a bug in my previous fix in 607.
.

Click to expand...

Is it possible to download the new SVN 608 version and copy it over to my mod folder, and continue my current savegame? Or is this not advised? Im new to this

@45*38'N,
Here's a Barb World Random CTD save game and logs.

Last 2 lines from PythonDbg file in the attached logs :
PY:City Acquired Event: Nakhon Sri Thammarat
PY:City Razed Event: Nakhon Sri Thammarat

JosEPh

Jayman1000 said:

Is it possible to download the new SVN 608 version and copy it over to my mod folder, and continue my current savegame? Or is this not advised? Im new to this

Click to expand...

Yes.

JosEPh

In my current game suddenly many of the Civs with whom I was on good terms with got their ambassadors kicked out by me. However I have no idea how that happened. It just happened during one turn to another, and that usual "gonk" sound signalling a cancelled deal got amplified times five because so many deals where cancelled at once. This also led to the loss of many Open border agreements since these depend on the Embassies. Any ideas why this would suddenly happen? a bug? Since the diplomatic ramifications are quite severe I think this would be quite serious if it really is a bug.

Nice work

But what are the random map creation asset that I should use?

Jayman1000 said:

In my current game suddenly many of the Civs with whom I was on good terms with got their ambassadors kicked out by me. However I have no idea how that happened. It just happened during one turn to another, and that usual "gonk" sound signalling a cancelled deal got amplified times five because so many deals where cancelled at once. This also led to the loss of many Open border agreements since these depend on the Embassies. Any ideas why this would suddenly happen? a bug? Since the diplomatic ramifications are quite severe I think this would be quite serious if it really is a bug.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's a bug. It could be that someone declared war on you and his vassals followed or he/she was able to convince other civs to declare war on you; maybe because you're the strongest civ, maybe because you're really weak. Looking at the other screenshot you've posted, it looks like there are many civs stronger than you. For example, if Native Americans declared war to you, also Koreans, Incas and Holy Romans do.