Does a built Monument in the capital become FREE with Tradition?
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kaspergm
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Just to clarify, have you actually tested whether culture-buffed temples could be awarded for free?
Religion-related effects do show up in build information if I'm not mistaken - for instance, if you have religious centers, I'm pretty sure information panel will show the 2 happiness when you build the temple.
kaspergm
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Wrong, or at least only half true. Like numerous posts above mention, there's no need to delete monuments because you will get free Amphitheatres instead.
I don't want free amphitheaters because they are worthless and I will never hard build them. I want free gold all game long. 4 gold per turn for the rest of eternity.
If you are not building any amphitheaters EVER, that means that you clearly have no idea how to play this game, and I do not understand why exactly are making any suggestions in a strategic forum, rather than just going home and starting up a settler game.
reddishrecue
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Or if you somehow get the monument and amphitheater built you can get a opera house for free.
Yes, clearly 1 culture per turn for a big hammer investment is a great idea. Are you serious? I encourage you to duel me, play me in an FFA or a teamer and see what happens. Do you even play against real thinking humans or just beat up on the ******ed AI over and over?
Considering your previous posts, I'm pretty surprised at this comment.
You are aware that Domination isn't the only VC, correct? This means that buildings that are not useful to your desired VC aren't useless, it means that they're used in a different manner.
its not the 1 culture that matter, its the opera house and hermitage that you cannot get. Also, there is one thing called culture victory ...
And last but not least you need some tourism going to get exotic with the AI to not get huge happiness hit when the ideologies come.
So amphitheater has its uses for sure. Not immediately, but you definitely have to build em at some point.
lindsay40k
Emperor
Hang on. Notwithstanding the extreme rarity of popping Legalism when you've got all four cities rocking Broadcast Towers, I thought 'free building' policies automatically sold and replaced any built buildings they provide? I'm sure I get a refund on my Aqueducts if I've built some before finishing Tradition...
(And yes, this does happen. Sometimes I need a couple of Honour policies to capture TGW or milk CSs for range logistics XBows, and I'm not reducing my capital's growth rate to save three turns' building and 1GPT.)
You do get a refund on existing aqueducts when you take the Tradition finisher, but it doesn't work that way for Legalism. Your next culture building in each city is free, and appears automatically when you research the required tech.
kaspergm
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Well that argumentation sort of lacked in your post above. While I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion or strategy - you will need some slots for Writings in almost every game, and even though National Epic and Heroic Epic can cover your needs for a while, I wouldn't call the Amphitheatre useless - but apart from that, I do agree that toning the culture yield of subsequent buildings down to only 1 was a bit too far, and I myself have modded them up to 2 similar to Monument. Also, if you have hard-build the monument, it does seem like a waste of hammers to sell it again, even more so when you consider that the amount of "free" hammers you get from the Amphitheatre is considerable higher than what you get for the Monument. But yes, it will cost you 1GPT for entire game ...
lindsay40k
Emperor
I think they toned down Amphitheatres because with 1cpt sans GWW and 3cpt with GWW, their yield straddles 2cpt. It doesn't take long to get the first GWW - usually arrives before I get my NE built - and a 4cpt building would be pretty powerful.
Actually the free Amphitheatre is quite compelling. See by the time you can build these there is usually much more important things to be building and the advantage is you can work your writers guild for the first Writer without having to worry about not having a writers slot. The second slot should come from National Epic or Heroic Epic (for domination)...
Whatever VC you are going for you need to keep your Writers Guild staffed as that is your biggest source of early culture and the free Amphitheatre makes this easier.
Unless you are specifically seeking a cultural victory, the amphitheater is pretty much garbage. You get 1 culture per turn plus you need to pay its upkeep and spend hammers on it instead of other things in the game that are needed.
The other reason why they are garbage is because cultural victories are simply not viable in competitive games. So, If you are making them you are not playing optimally because they are not good and you are not playing optimally because the victory you are seeking is not optimal against skilled players.
Many games vs good players require you to spread your economy to its limits, defending yourself with a large army while supporting science building's and happiness building's upkeeps a well as many roads.
If you are making amphitheaters you are either messing around going for a long shot, unviable victory condition or simply don't know what you are doing with no clear aim.
Optimal use of writers is for instant culture attempting to fill out rationalism/idealogy ASAP, optimal use of the great artist is for golden ages which give you tons of money, production AND extra culture.
This means there is no way I'm going to make amphitheaters because I'm using my writers and artists to burn them unless I'm going for a culture victory which is straight up screwing around.
If going full tradition, I simply don't make monuments at all and allow myself to get them for free with no hammer cost. If I am doing a standard Tradition-Liberty mix then I will make a monument in my cap and first city only. When I get to legalism after earning a settler, I delete those 2 and allow the other 2 cities to get them for free.
Considering the hammer cost and upkeep cost of the amphitheater does not justify wanting it for free because those costs are irrelevant if I never want to make them in the first place.
I often find myself running negative or nearly zero GPT when I get to legalism and those free monuments nudge me away from the precipice of a negative economy. This is because you get them before roads and markets as well as OP monarchy.
OK, I get your point, but really - next time you should mention that you play exclusively MP. As you could imagine, most players here are playing SP, and things are a bit different
kaspergm
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I hear what you are saying, and have no doubts that what you say is true for competitive multiplayer gaming. That is not the type of game that I am playing, which obviously also explains our different strategies. If you play (casual) singleplayer, the free Amphitheatre is not that bad.
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