need tips about emperor/king +

Hi, first time poster here, and a lurker =D

I usually play in emperor and king using the liberty free settler and worker as well as getting the great library, along with pyramids
great library i used to take philosophy as the free tech but now i try to aim for mathematics if i opened tradition later on, the gardens are just too awesome
However, if by chance i failed to get the great library, i will usually fall behind a LOT, for some reason(on emperor, king this doesnt happens at all)
do u guys have any tips that i can take without using the GL and still not fall behind ?
particularly about the social policy openers and units/buildings to build early
i go from scout > monument nowadays.

The first thing you have to accept is that you WILL be behind the AI to start with on the higher difficulties. If you really, really focus on the GL you can get it if you're lucky, even on Deity apparently (although I can only vouch for immortal), but it's often not worth the sacrifice of stinted early growth and expansion. The Hanging Gardens also tends to go very early on the higher difficulties so you're unlikely to get that either. BNW effectively nerfed them anyway, as you can essentially mirror the food effects of it with a food trade route.

The best thing to do to catch up to the AI is to beeline to the science techs as much as you can (within reason) and get as much growth in your cities as you can. Have some food trade routes, especially coastal, and focus on building up infrastructure rather than risking it all with early wonders. Do this and you'll eventually catch up.

Whilst the liberty free settler and worker is very nice it might be better for you to go down tradition if you're going tall. For me it's probably the best policy tree in the game, apart from maybe rationalism (which, by the way, you should definitely also get at least the opener of). The extra growth you get of course transfers into science, the importance of which cannot be underestimated. Whilst the free settler and worker are very useful to get things going the long-term effects of tradition easily outweigh that of liberty for me, even if you've got 5 or 6 cities. This of course is all subjective and if you're in a highly pressured start with the AI very close to you and lots of good spots to take it's probably best to dip into liberty for the settler and possibly worker before trying to get into tradition.

scout - monument is a situational opener. Getting a shrine in ASAP is always good, even if you're not too bothered about religion, as the benefits you get range from nice to great. A scout, of course, is always very useful. A monument however might not be necessary if you're lucky and pop a culture ruin. Do so and you get dip into tradition and get the free monument in your first 4 cities very easily without wasting hammers on the monument. If you get a culture ruin early on, ignore the monument and just wait to get it for free. You'll save a lot of hammers you can spend on a worker, granary or library and with the +3 culture tradition opener you'll get there very quickly.

okay..
now that rationalism is slightly nerfed due to now we cant purchase great scientists with faith unless u took the whole tree, i dont really try to finish it unless i have tons of partners who RAs with me
what about the build order, when do i start building caravans?

One thing I learned from the only deity game I've played is to not panic if you're really far behind on tech. Keep chugging along technology, food, and production, and you'll slowly catch up throughout the game. You can steal settlers from the AI (which turn in to workers), or steal workers from city states to shave off valuable early game production time. I generally steal 2 workers this way, and my relationship with one city state will go down a little, but it's worth doing. Some people find this cheap though, and it's not necessary.

Also, don't be afraid to build and buy settlers early game. You need 3 or 4 well developed cities early to compete. It will feel bad at the time you're making them, but it's worth doing very early. In a recent immortal game with ethiopia, I went tradition, bought a settler and produced another when my city was at 3 population. It paid off decently quickly, and I probably would have gotten another had their been space on my map.

Policy wise, the strongest method out there generally seems to be to go tradition/patronage (to consulates only), and then go rationalism. This changes based on each civ though. For a late game wide empire, I think liberty/commerce/order with patronage/consulates is also a nice under appreciated choice because it gives you so many building cost reducers.

yuguna said:

okay..
now that rationalism is slightly nerfed due to now we cant purchase great scientists with faith unless u took the whole tree, i dont really try to finish it unless i have tons of partners who RAs with me
what about the build order, when do i start building caravans?

Click to expand...

You don't have to finish rationalism, but the +10% science is a briliant opener and there's pretty much no reason to get it unless you're in constant unhappiness (in which case you're pretty screwed anyway). The other science boosters are also great, but you don't need to finish the tree unless you're going for a science victory (although I still wouldn't advise against it).

There's no set rule for when to build a caravan, and I probably get them too late so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't get a caravan until your economy is really starting to suffer or you've got at least a second city. Building up city infrastructure and expanding is more important IMO, but I'd be interested to see what others think.

yuguna said:

okay..
now that rationalism is slightly nerfed due to now we cant purchase great scientists with faith unless u took the whole tree, i dont really try to finish it unless i have tons of partners who RAs with me
what about the build order, when do i start building caravans?

Click to expand...

Caravans and cargo ships are awesome. I'd say start building them as soon as you have a second city with no black in between your two cities (and aren't rushing a wonder). Put them on internal food trade routes early to build up your empire. Gold is nicer later (I think, although just keeping internal trade routes is very tempting, I've never tried that though) when the game is more developed, but internal trade routes are excellent for jump starting a newly founded city.

okay so i used poland cos i wanted to try their awesomeness
i found out that i am the only civ in my small continent then quickly settled up till 6 or 7 cities, leaving half or less of the continent unfilled with is tundra and snow
i caught up in tech more or less in industrial, using spies and porcelein tower's awesome science
its turn 250 and i have 420 beakers
a bit meh though,
now i have to probably deal with 3 or 4 different nations, discovering my continent having space and settled there=.=
lizy(settled, and covetted my lands, wut), polynesia(friend, but i hate him, he constantly backstabs me in other games), babylon(hostile) and spain(wonder wh**e)

You don't have nearly enough science. If you have 6 or 7 cities by industrial you should be topping out at at least 600+ beakers. How big are the cities?

3 size 20s and the rest are 10-15s i was sturggling to keep my cash above 0 thus my cities arent much supported by caravans.