Wow, Indonesia...

Eagle Pursuit said:

Indonesia strikes me as a bit of a Byzantium or Spain. You have to pursue an objective in order to use your ability. If you can do that, then it works well. Sometimes circumstances conspire to prevent you from being able to utilize the unique ability. Dems da breaks, kid.

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I'd check out the challenge of non-luxurious Indonesia, religious-less Byzantium and unlucky Spain.

Interesting tidbit I found on r/civ:

"A captured city on a different continent counts for the unique resources"

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A playing against Indonesia question:

Are Indonesia's special resources available to the civ that conquers the city that has them? Or do they nullify like porcelain and jewelry?

Because I have this plan to exploit Indonesia:

In my game Indonesia has gone tall without building any cities off their mainland. They are making themselves the butt of the WC. I was considering turning the world against them. I would build a few cities on an archipelago where Indonesia should have built them ages ago, then gift the cities to Indonesia, declare war, and conquer them back.

I already know that if Indonesia conquers a city overseas, that city will get their special resources if available. So gifting cities to them should yield the same. And the cities with unique resources can't be razed, so Indonesia can't raze the free cities. And since they were originally my cities, they won't need to be annexed or puppeted when I reconquer them, I will regain full control. So I'd basically be stealing Indonesia's UA, which they aren't even using.

Eagle Pursuit said:

A playing against Indonesia question:

Are Indonesia's special resources available to the civ that conquers the city that has them? Or do they nullify like porcelain and jewelry?

Because I have this plan to exploit Indonesia:

In my game Indonesia has gone tall without building any cities off their mainland. They are making themselves the butt of the WC. I was considering turning the world against them. I would build a few cities on an archipelago where Indonesia should have built them ages ago, then gift the cities to Indonesia, declare war, and conquer them back.

I already know that if Indonesia conquers a city overseas, that city will get their special resources if available. So gifting cities to them should yield the same. And the cities with unique resources can't be razed, so Indonesia can't raze the free cities. And since they were originally my cities, they won't need to be annexed or puppeted when I reconquer them, I will regain full control.

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I'm actually guessing that falls apart because it isn't Indonesia that's building the cities.

EDIT: Oh NM, I'm wrong as usual

SammyKhalifa said:

I'm actually guessing that falls apart because it isn't Indonesia that's building the cities.

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No, in a different thread a player playing as Indonesia said they conquered a city overseas and the puppet got Nutmeg in it.

Got two Enemy Blades in a row. Worst civ ever. Srsly wtf.
It's not like having to settle across the ocean isn't enough of a pain already.
Now RNG says my only other ability is to be gimped. Ok.

I o't say that Indonesia is bad, I will say that I hate it. after loading up 5+ games on continents plus and large islands with no good islands or other land masses, I might have to say that Indonesia isn't the problem, the map scripts are, as I was playing I would get a trireme asap then explore oping that my 3rd or fourth city would be able to get the bonus, but alas I only had disappointment, (before you ask, no I will not play on the diarrhea known as archipelago) so while Indonesia may be unique and interesting. I think that they are annoying to play as. maybe if I had a perfect map, but unlike the Byzantines or Spanish the work required and chance of random failure are just too high and frustrating. that being said if I found a map that had a halfway decent island within settling range (coast, not ocean. and with 10ish tiles from the capital)

atahop said:

I o't say that Indonesia is bad, I will say that I hate it. after loading up 5+ games on continents plus and large islands with no good islands or other land masses, I might have to say that Indonesia isn't the problem, the map scripts are, as I was playing I would get a trireme asap then explore oping that my 3rd or fourth city would be able to get the bonus, but alas I only had disappointment, (before you ask, no I will not play on the diarrhea known as archipelago) so while Indonesia may be unique and interesting. I think that they are annoying to play as. maybe if I had a perfect map, but unlike the Byzantines or Spanish the work required and chance of random failure are just too high and frustrating. that being said if I found a map that had a halfway decent island within settling range (coast, not ocean. and with 10ish tiles from the capital)

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Have you tried small continents? That's what I did and maybe I got lucky maybe I didn't, but it was a great map script - iron on one island, marbles on one island, and mountain-side whales on the last. (Except Zulu and I settled the same time and he stole my iron...then proceeded to attack me)

Gave Indonesia another shot today and it was actually a great game.
Continents. King Level.
The nutmeg and cloves provided Excellent bargaining chips with other civs. Put those on the trade table and you get anything you want, no questions asked.
It was an epic all day battle that i lost to Catherine. only 30 points! doesn't that just irritate you...
was my fault. I should have stepped it up and on many levels so i have no one to blame but me.

Candi is also rather useless as it requires a specific terrain feature AND a completely stupid religion mechanic in place. 7/10 games Indonesia is farked
If Spain is about luck, then Indonesia is about hitting 100 dollar lottery tickets. Ten times in a row.

I tried two games on Immortal with Indonesia:

My first game I went for early wars, found some iron for the special swordsman unit and forward settled on the Americans who were busy building wonders. The whole time I was negative on gold and thus science. By the time I took his two cities and made peace with my newly acquired wonders, I was too far behind on science to keep up with everyone else. Lost to Egypt DOW sometime later who had better military techs.

My second game I went for peaceful, wide science victory with religion. I managed to settle on two islands fairly early, one with pearls and another with copper. Much later the third with much needed coal. I had 3 other cities near my capital on my own continent. As you can imagine I had a lot of happiness which allowed me to grow like crazy and I was cruising for a science victory. Unfortunately when I hit Modern era, the Greeks just won outright with diplomatic victory because they picked up and allied every single city state. Still wondering how I could have prevented that.

I think they're fine if you do some scouting early and find islands before other people do. Don't try to war early though, it's bad enough that the promotion is random. And the Candi is pretty useless too. But they definitely aren't the worst Civ in the game. Maybe BNW..

ptoss1 said:

Candi is also rather useless as it requires a specific terrain feature AND a completely stupid religion mechanic in place. 7/10 games Indonesia is farked
If Spain is about luck, then Indonesia is about hitting 100 dollar lottery tickets. Ten times in a row.

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There's some luck involved but you're blowing it way out of proportion. The Kris swords have a 3/4 chance of being an incredibly strong UU and Candis still give you +2 faith before the World Religion (which then makes it +4). Settling cities on different islands is a non-issue on any water oriented map and although it's a map dependent UA, a big chunk of the civs already in the game are fairly map dependent for their unique abilities, units, and buildings.

I've been trying to get a good Indonesia game going all day today. The thing I've learned is patience. You don't want to go rushing off to colonize some small island right off the bat. Build up your mainland base. Explore all the over the map. Settle your resource cities in good locations. It's a challenging civ to play because you want to exploit it as fast as possible, but that can lead you to make mistakes.

Ok won my immortal Indonesia game via a "Diplomatic win" [Mostly city states, had the world ideology, world religion so not just the cses ], had several sites for Candi's although it appears the lake requirement is the same for normal gardens now too.

Also, when conquering a city on a different continent, you receive the bonus resources too. Interesting little factoid there. Some of the unique promotions were really nice. Getting the extra movement and an extra attack promotion basically meant some of my swordsmen became mini-horsemen and the great general promotion was nice, I only needed one of those and therefore could use the rest of my GGs for citadels.

Also although I picked the sacred sites follower belief, I took a few cities that were following Islam and had the Jesuit follower belief. For 360 faith in one of the later eras on standard game pace, I could buy a public school with that. Simply amazing if you can collect a ton of faith. I went conquering that region and religion, building my UB [And temples and shrines] and then rush buying science buildings in all of the AI's former cities that lost them on capture and quickly got a new powerful science district

ptoss1 said:

Candi is also rather useless as it requires a specific terrain feature AND a completely stupid religion mechanic in place. 7/10 games Indonesia is farked
If Spain is about luck, then Indonesia is about hitting 100 dollar lottery tickets. Ten times in a row.

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I've played Indonesia twice and must have had very good luck if that's the case. The candi was admittedly of limited use in the second game, but partly that was my fault for not making the candi city my primary international trade hub. As others have noted, expanding late is good - why do you even need nutmeg early in the game when the landscape is full of resources you haven't settled yet?

Just won a Prince game with Indonesia and was pleasantly surprised. Got my first spice city up early but focused on building up my mainland forces. When Kris Swordsman became available, I did the unthinkable... and traded an extra lux for the spare iron from a civ I WASN'T going to war with

That let me build a lot of extra kris swordsmen, who by and large got positive upgrades as I started a couple early wars and then ended them as soon as the other guy was willing to cede a few cities. In the end the Celts were wiped out (by the Spanish, with my help) and Rome was pushed from being third place to around fifth (Standard-size map)

With a little breathing room, I teched up, comfortably developing my cities with the money my luxes were bringing in and way above the happiness line. Kept all my good Kris swordsmen, disbanded any that had bad upgrades and were no longer needed. Took that time to grab caravels and establish cities on the other continents, getting my other spices. With so much happiness and money coming from my luxes, luxes I traded for, and the 'resource diversity' bonus, it wasn't hard for me to keep buying stuff as I needed it. I also lucked out and found Mt. Sinai early, and used it to grab the +4 Faith for Natural Wonders belief, and then when my religion was founded, I also grabbed Pagodas, Tithe, and Jesuit Education, meaning I had huge faith and happiness that I could then turn around into educational buildings. My culture exploded, and by the time I had to go to war again (against Attilla) I out-teched him quite a bit - and joining the war against him made me friends with the other front-runner, Spain. Their help got everything I wanted passed through World Congress since we were the two biggest voting blocks. Before long I was influential with everyone but Rome, who had a different ideology (the rest of us went Order, he was Autocratic)

So I took my high-tech armies and crushed him. He hadn't grown much since I slapped him around the first time, and with him eliminated from the game, I was the cultural victor at around 400 turns in.

I've got two cities on one new continent, and I am only getting the resources from one. Is that resource only from a city on each new continent, not each city?

Anarchist said:

I've got two cities on one new continent, and I am only getting the resources from one. Is that resource only from a city on each new continent, not each city?

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you only get the resources for one per new island or continent.
if you want more you will have to settle somewhere else.
x

sarah_aus said:

you only get the resources for one per new island or continent.
if you want more you will have to settle somewhere else.
x

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That is what I figured, although the 'pedia did not indicate that (to me - maybe reading too fast). Thanks.