Wow, Indonesia...

Most of the forums I frequent enforce the "search for an existing topic before posting" rule, which means necro is not only allowed, but actually endorsed. I'm sorry if I caused any trouble, but it does make sense to post my opinions in this topic instead of creating a new one which would have the same purpose.

Indonesian cities built in other lands aren't razable. This means that the cities that are captured will cause unhappiness to other civilizations. Also, the luxury resources that come from spice islanders ua won't be added to the other civilizations ' happiness.

I'd have to say france are also one of the worst civs in the game aslong with indonesia

Here are two screenshots of my huge Indonesian Empire:




The Spice Island cities are Fuji, Mataram and Manila.

Indonesia's a terrible civilization. They need islands to use their ability.

Other civilizations that are terrible:

Carthage: You need to be on a coast to get their harbor.
Dutch: You need a luxury to trade away to use their ability.
Inca: They only get the movement bonus on hills.
Polynesia: Requires ocean and coast.
Shoshone: Possibly the worst civ in the game if you spawn on a single tile island.
Zulu: I don't know how to pronounce "impi", therefore they suck.

Also, possibly worth noting... I have looked in the .ini files for start bias information, and found nothing relating to this, however, I have played a lot of Indonesia, and what I've noticed on Perfect World maps is that they almost always (about 4 out of 5 times) start near the archipelago region. Maybe there is some more complex start bias information hard coded into the game, or maybe it just kind of works out that way once all start biases are taken into consideration, or maybe my crazy is affecting my memory and judgement here... still, I find it's incredibly rare that I can't find a way to take advantage of Indonesia's UA on a balanced map script.

Secondly, It's been mentioned countless times... but civs are balanced for a balanced earth-like map script. Not things like Pangaea and Archipelago, so the answer to (civ) is worthless or OP on those maps is "If that's a problem for you, stop playing those maps".

Thirdly, Indonesia isn't necessarily meant to benefit from all her abilities on a single playthrough. The theme and flavor of the civ comes from trying to leverage the wild-ass and sometimes seemingly mutually exclusive goals and directions they push you towards. It is meant to simulate real Indonesia's struggle and often success in uniting wildly opposing and conflicting religions and culture's. The benefit is, each their UA, UB, and UU are all very strong, each in their own right... when used properly and assuming you've implemented them into your over-all strategy wisely.

Once you're not in an island.. indonesia loses its advantages

It's a mid tier civ for me. The UA isn't good but the UB is quite nice. Some UUs can catch nasty promos but more importantly he starts coastal.

Honestly I much prefer Indonesia over strong civs like Babylon/China which are one - trick pony.

free academy

more percents

Indonesia requires specific terrain to work (like many civs), other than that it is OK and definitely interesting.

- Lot of free happiness in the beginning -> easier expansion
- More golden ages
- Lot of gold from trade agreements (or even more happiness via other luxuries)
- Candi is really underrated building, it is arguably the best religious building in the entire game (tons of faith)
- Kris Swordsman is an upgrade of mediocre unit but it makes it actually quite good. Kris soldiers with double attacks/super heal/super percentages can be really powerful.

No one would mind if you start another topic about something in 10th page, I guess.

DeletedSettler said:

Indonesia's a terrible civilization. They need islands to use their ability.

Other civilizations that are terrible:

Carthage: You need to be on a coast to get their harbor.
Dutch: You need a luxury to trade away to use their ability.
Inca: They only get the movement bonus on hills.
Polynesia: Requires ocean and coast.
Shoshone: Possibly the worst civ in the game if you spawn on a single tile island.
Zulu: I don't know how to pronounce "impi", therefore they suck.

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Seriously. Old thing gonna get said again. Indonesia and several civ out there aren't designed to have an focused ability.

Indonesia will be focused on their unique luxury, but wait! Doesn't they focus on military? Kris swordman can be totally OP if you're lucky. Candi can also give you great lead in faith too. But does that religious perk?

Problem is more with viewpoints and you can underestimate civ because you just look with one of it's aspect (more so with multiplayer), you can ridicule Mongol UA on city-state just before you are overran by Khan-ed Keshik horde, or you might think English are done for when start inland until their longbowmen marchs and they later use their UA from your city. Dutch polder and Inca terrace farm is OP if you can actually find the place to build them, and it's not the naval civs fault that they have little bonus without coastal cities.

Only India can be considered unconditional bad to me.

"If you're smart or skilled" should trump "if you're lucky".

Buccaneer said:

"If you're smart or skilled" should trump "if you're lucky".

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Well~ Too bad luck have so much impact on Indonesia UU, and I have heard enough complain about it since Indonesia's reveal. But if you are that smart and skilled. You will overcome most bad luck game threw at you. Right?

Indonesia is more like a civ for casual play unlike Korea/Babylon/Mongols etc which have a specific strategy which is better for competitive play. Indonesia is fun in its own right, IMO there must must be some random civs like these as they add more to fun scenarios & really put you in situations which otherwise won't be possible or optimal. If all civs had boring percentage bonuses like Babylon we would end up with a stale game having less replayability.

Buccaneer said:

"If you're smart or skilled" should trump "if you're lucky".

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If you're REALLY smart or skilled, you can find ways to overcome unluckiness.

If you're REALLY smart and skilled you should be able to win with these guys.

DeletedSettler said:

If you're REALLY smart and skilled you should be able to win with these guys.

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That's hysterical! I love the civilopedia write-ups.

Colmar said:

Is there a mod for AI random modifiers? The Zulu are unbearable and kinda just spoil the fun of the early game. I don't want to handpick my opponents, but I hate the Zulu.

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Its easy. Just select Random Personalties in advanced options. The Zulu will still exist, but the flavours are random, so the Zulu could be a wonder spamming army less civilization, while Venice has a huge army.

Don't get the Indonesia hate, probably my favorite civ. Those extra luxuries are huge bonuses to your gold, happiness and trade route income, and the UB is a boss. Kris can be worldbeaters with 3/4 promotions available to them. The only thing you have to do is explore early and settle four early cities. Encourages a kind of game play that appeals to me.

there UA is hit or miss. Dont know about there other UA or UB. But their ability assures you 3(or is it 4 free resources?) free cities. If you made them early on you could get a huge advantage if you play them right.

IMO worst civ is america or india. but gaja isnt that far behind.

DeletedSettler said:

Indonesia's a terrible civilization. They need islands to use their ability.

Other civilizations that are terrible:

Carthage: You need to be on a coast to get their harbor.
Dutch: You need a luxury to trade away to use their ability.
Inca: They only get the movement bonus on hills.
Polynesia: Requires ocean and coast.
Shoshone: Possibly the worst civ in the game if you spawn on a single tile island.
Zulu: I don't know how to pronounce "impi", therefore they suck.

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top 2 are bad. inca i dont have but heard you can get huge cities from them and moving over hills quickly is a nice bonus for war.
polynesia: bad.
shoshone: good. have u ever been spawned on a one tile island? only prob with them i have is every time i use them i tend to get really bad gold at beginning of game because i have so much land.
Zulu: lol