Early Trade Routes

chazzycat

chazzycat

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Oct 13, 2010
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I only have a brief experience so far, but I have to say so far it looks like (sea) trade routes really have to be considered carefully. It seems VERY easy for barb ships to pillage them, and then you lose the entire trade route. There's also a pretty significant hammer cost, both in the trade unit itself and the necessary protection units. All for a few gold per turn. I assume they get better later in the game, but it seems pretty risky to go for them early.

I had a trade route only 8 tiles from my capital, so I figured one trireme would be fine for defense considering it could see the entire area between the two cities. But a few turns later 2 barb ships poked out of the fog and pillaged the route anyway without anything I could do about it. I shortly realized, that in order to protect that trade route, I would need to clear out the entire area and then keep 3 or so triremes on defense to cover all the approaches. At this point in the game where the trade route is only worth 3/4 gold per turn, it doesn't seem worth that much investment.

Has anyone had better experiences with early trade routes? Or are you finding it's better to wait a bit on them?
 
Well, at least with cross continent routes we'll only have to defend the coastal approaches in the early game. But yeah, this sounds really risky. How thematic though, I really like that. FWIW, it doesn't take that long for 2 triremes to explore all the coasts around your starting continent, so protecting trade routes gives them something to do afterward. But yeah that seems pretty pointless since the cost of the triremes is barely covered by only 3/4 gold. I'm already making 6 gold in my land trade routes coming from Assur (classical), so I'm sure it won't be long before your sea routes are worth it.
 
Not been able to play yet, but I have read all I can!! And all people say the same thing, you must always protect the trade routes. So your outlook seems right to me.

Also, someone said the game now has raging barbs as standard setup. I do know if that is not the case, the new barbs seem very painful.
 
chazzycat said:
I only have a brief experience so far, but I have to say so far it looks like (sea) trade routes really have to be considered carefully. It seems VERY easy for barb ships to pillage them, and then you lose the entire trade route. There's also a pretty significant hammer cost, both in the trade unit itself and the necessary protection units. All for a few gold per turn. I assume they get better later in the game, but it seems pretty risky to go for them early.

I had a trade route only 8 tiles from my capital, so I figured one trireme would be fine for defense considering it could see the entire area between the two cities. But a few turns later 2 barb ships poked out of the fog and pillaged the route anyway without anything I could do about it. I shortly realized, that in order to protect that trade route, I would need to clear out the entire area and then keep 3 or so triremes on defense to cover all the approaches. At this point in the game where the trade route is only worth 3/4 gold per turn, it doesn't seem worth that much investment.

Has anyone had better experiences with early trade routes? Or are you finding it's better to wait a bit on them?
Click to expand...

In my one game so far, I only had land trade routes, and they were pretty safe. Barbarians didn't pillage any of them, even though they were buzzing around (played on King). I didn't lose any trade routes until Egypt declared war on me and I lost those units who were trading with them.
 
Big J Money said:
Well, at least with cross continent routes we'll only have to defend the coastal approaches in the early game. But yeah, this sounds really risky. How thematic though, I really like that. FWIW, it doesn't take that long for 2 triremes to explore all the coasts around your starting continent, so protecting trade routes gives them something to do afterward. But yeah that seems pretty pointless since the cost of the triremes is barely covered by only 3/4 gold. I'm already making 6 gold in my land trade routes coming from Assur (classical), so I'm sure it won't be long before your sea routes are worth it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a hidden buff for the Ottomans.
 
Build a 2nd city, a granary in capital and a caravan. Send 3 :c5food: per turn for the new city :goodjob:

It's pretty strong.
 
Barbs will favour pillaging a ITR given the chance. A.I. in which you are at war with will go out of their way to pillage your ITR.

Barbs also, sent their units if their camps are empty. So if you clear a defending barb unit with an archer, and there is a horseman barb near by... that horseman will either go in and defend the camp if you have a another nearby unit. Or will take out the archer if it can kill it in one shot.
 
Tabarnak said:
Build a 2nd city, a granary in capital and a caravan. Send 3 :c5food: per turn for the new city :goodjob:

It's pretty strong.
Click to expand...
Yeah internal may be the way to go at first. I was playing as Venice and didn't have a 2nd city yet, but it would seem that trade routes between your own cities will be much easier to defend at least.
 
Big J Money said:
FWIW, it doesn't take that long for 2 triremes to explore all the coasts around your starting continent, so protecting trade routes gives them something to do afterward.
Click to expand...
Ha, that was my plan, but my island proved bigger than I thought and my 2nd trireme didn't get back in time.

Big J Money said:
But yeah that seems pretty pointless since the cost of the triremes is barely covered by only 3/4 gold. I'm already making 6 gold in my land trade routes coming from Assur (classical), so I'm sure it won't be long before your sea routes are worth it.
Click to expand...
Good to hear.
 
Relevant barbarians? Relevant navies? Being forced to be proactive?

This is excellent news! :goodjob:
 
I've so far had experience with one Venetian sea route and one Shoshone land route. I protected the land route with a guard in the middle of the route and it was never bothered by barbs. I left the sea route unprotected by anything and it was gone three turns after I set it up, destroyed by a barb trireme. So the point is, protect them...build the protectors before you set up the route! And try to keep a mobile reserve to fend off any bold attempts.
 
SammyKhalifa said:
Sounds like a hidden buff for the Ottomans.
Click to expand...

Yep, playing as Ottoman now. Having a use for all those galleys sure is nice... even if they're only useful for taking out other galleys and providing sight. Although, to be totally honest, I didn't have much use for those trade routes in the early game. I sent one to a city state, mostly as a means to force it to adopt my religion (and just so I could say "look, my ships are useful!"). It took a while.
 
KrikkitTwo said:
Actually, early trade route pillage danger seems to be a significant buff to Honor.. you can see whenever a barb threat pops up, and move rapidly to neutralize it.
Click to expand...

exactly. And with the gold you get from their camps, you can buy the next Caravan/Cargo ship/Settler instead of building one.
 
Tabarnak said:
Build a 2nd city, a granary in capital and a caravan. Send 3 :c5food: per turn for the new city :goodjob:

It's pretty strong.
Click to expand...

You can do this? What are the limits and costs? You don't know how long I have wanted the ability to move some food around. Agrarian cities fueling industrial powerhouses with pop should be an essential game mechanic of Civ IMO. I'd like to be able to manage pop a bit too (move it around, with limitations of course), but food is basically the same thing, just a bit more mming.

Sorry for the lack of knowledge though, I haven't played V since the first month or so. G&K didn't do enough to wipe out the lack of fun I had with the original, but you guys are getting me pretty hyped about re-starting my favorite game addiction.
 
oopsy poopsy said:
You can do this? What are the limits and costs? You don't know how long I have wanted the ability to move some food around. Agrarian cities fueling industrial powerhouses with pop should be an essential game mechanic of Civ IMO. I'd like to be able to manage pop a bit too (move it around, with limitations of course), but food is basically the same thing, just a bit more mming.

Sorry for the lack of knowledge though, I haven't played V since the first month or so. G&K didn't do enough to wipe out the lack of fun I had with the original, but you guys are getting me pretty hyped about re-starting my favorite game addiction.
Click to expand...

cost=60 granary*, 75 caravan, 100? settler, 1 Trade route
limit=chance of route being pillaged by barbs

*must be built in 2nd city if you want to boost the capital.

Amount moved
Cargo ship (cost 150)= 6 food in ancient era, 7 in Classical, etc.
Caravan=1/2 of Cargo ship (round down)
 
The cost is sacrificing one of your trade routes...you only get a set amount. Also the trade unit costs a significant amount of hammers. But it is cool, all you need is a granary in the source city. And you don't lose food in the city sending it...it's a pure bonus.
 
I do hope someone will make the mod which does the following:

1) Any food/production transferred from city A to city B will not only be added to city B, but reduced from city A.
2) Once #1 is done, allow us to determine how much should be transferred in the trade route, not just a fixed sum.
3) Make trade routes auto-renew.
 
KrikkitTwo said:
cost=60 granary*, 75 caravan, 100? settler
limit=chance of route being pillaged by barbs

*must be built in 2nd city if you want to boost the capital.

Amount moved
Cargo ship (cost 150)= 6 food in ancient era, 7 in Classical, etc.
Caravan=1/2 of Cargo ship (round down)
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Is it 3 :c5food: max or is there a different limit? If limited, does it scale with age/tech? You can also build more 'vans than routes though right? So you're not foregoing a trade route to use it for food shipping?

chazzycat said:
The cost is sacrificing one of your trade routes...you only get a set amount. Also the trade unit costs a significant amount of hammers. But it is cool, all you need is a granary in the source city. And you don't lose food in the city sending it...it's a pure bonus.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. Still okay, but I thought maybe caravans were more gamechanging than I expected.


edit: Sorry, I edited and didn't say it, 'cause I saw a response above mine that addressed my question. Cheers!
 
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