New Leaders (art, personalities, diplomacy texts)

Okay, Augustus stays, Ivan gets Nat/Exp
Could Suharto go as Nat/Sea? Or what would be better for him?
I think Collins is good with Nat/Phi and Khomeini with Nat/Spi
I'm also thinking of Andranik as Nat/Pro, but not sure on this one...


EDIT: Chavez had Cha/Phi before. If we add Nat to him, I would probably go with Phi
 
Okay, Augustus stays, Ivan gets Nat/Exp
Could Suharto go as Nat/Sea? Or what would be better for him?
I think Collins is good with Nat/Phi and Khomeini with Nat/Spi
I'm also thinking of Andranik as Nat/Pro, but not sure on this one...


EDIT: Chavez had Cha/Phi before. If we add Nat to him, I would probably go with Phi

No idea what to do for Chavez, I'm really confused as to why he's even in.
Given that he's known mainly just for an inability to stick his foot in his mouth, I guess Nat/Cha.
 
Should he be Nationalistic in the first place?
 
Should he be Nationalistic in the first place?

Again, it's hard to tell.
As a leader he hasn't really done much outside of general failure.
We could always base his traits on what he's -tried- to do, which'd make him... ...Fin/Cha?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding leaders that screwed over their own country, it's just that normally the ones we work with have done something beyond that.
Hitler created a large empire that was seen as a genuine threat to Europe, Mao created a new lasting government and is still revered by his nation (which depending on how you view a nation's economic success may still be doing well), Saddam Hussein held together a nation that was practically a barrel of TNT even while Iran was ready to obliterate it (and also invaded a neighboring nation which made the West and Middle East rethink foreign policy... for better or for worse.)
Even Pol Pot and Idi Amin at least terrified the West and parts of the Far East into realizing just how horrible some nations can still get, and just how... corrupt people can become, and the evil they can commit, even in this day and age.
 
The purpose of adding Chavez was that the LH was really good and that I wanted to put a modern twist on GC by giving them a modern leader. He is pretty well-known right now and the LH was good plus he was modern so he fit a few bits of criteria for me. Keep in mind that fun is the primary goal of the mod, not necessarily historic accuracy or even necessarily noteworthy leaders (depending on the situation) so I take a lot more leeway with my modules than I do with the mod itself.
 
Nice list there. Did we get anywhere on the final traits for Nomadic/Traditionalist?

I'd like to get Xyth working on the new traits ASAP because I wanted playtest V to come quick after playtest IV since I took so long getting IV out.

Xyth, AFAIK these are the latest suggestions approved by Capo - with options what to do if some parts are not possible or memory-consuming to solve:

Seafaring:
  • +1 Movement for all naval units
  • DPS of Harbor, Customs House and Dry Dock - also add Market later if the trait doesn't seem strong enough in the playtests
  • Free Mobility and Sentry Promotions for Scouts and Explorers
  • +1 Trade Route in every city

Nationalistic:
  • +1 Happiness and +1 Culture per NW in city built - if this is hard to add we can go with reduced cost of NWs (at about 25%)
  • +2 Espionage Points in all cities
  • DPS of Jail, Mind Control Center, Intelligence Agency, Security Bureau
  • Minimal wait times between revolutions - it's a small bonus (altough would be cool to have) so only add if it's not too hard or memory-consuming to solve in python
  • Free Loyalty promotion for spies - after spy promotions are added (next playtest?)

Nomadic:
  • -50% Maintenence cost from distance from capital
  • +50-100% gold from pillaging - if we don't add any other free promotion for this trait and add Looting promotion to Diplomacy then can be solved with that too
  • -25% War Weariness
  • We need to figure out a good 4th bonus for Nomadic

Also, changes in original traits:
Protective: we wanted to add increased defence against spies (about 20-25% chance of thwarting rival spies)
Expansive: as Seafaring got Harbors, maybe add Aqueducts and the new Well building for this trait
Aggressive: Seafaring got Drydocks too, so add Stable here

We really should finalize the bonuses for Nomadic/Traditional too
 
Alright, Xyth, if you are reading this can you whip the code up for these?

A few things:
  • Make the pillaging bonus 100%, we can change this later. In fact, would it be easier if I just made a promotion?
  • Don't worry about the free spy promo yet.
  • Don't change up any of the original traits' DP buildings, I can do that myself.
 
Here you go.

- Seafaring and Nomadic are complete
- Nationalistic has 25% faster production of National Wonders for the moment
- I've not added the wait time between revolutions to Nationalistic as I don't know how
- I've included everything needed for the traits to display properly in BUG
- I've left all DPS buildings for you to do
- Nomadic uses a fake building; this will not show up in the pedia but it will display as a blank line in the city screen (I'm trying to make a solution for this)

Any file that is only a section of xml has _PARTIAL in it's name. For all other files, search for "BEGIN New Traits" to find the sections to merge.

If this all works fine I'll see if I can figure out the rest of Nationalistic.
 

Attachments

  • Traits for Diplomacy II.zip
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Here you go.

- Seafaring and Nomadic are complete
- Nationalistic has 25% faster production of National Wonders for the moment
- I've not added the wait time between revolutions to Nationalistic as I don't know how
- I've included everything needed for the traits to display properly in BUG
- I've left all DPS buildings for you to do
- Nomadic uses a fake building; this will not show up in the pedia but it will display as a blank line in the city screen (I'm trying to make a solution for this)

Any file that is only a section of xml has _PARTIAL in it's name. For all other files, search for "BEGIN New Traits" to find the sections to merge.

If this all works fine I'll see if I can figure out the rest of Nationalistic.

Thanks, this won't be in the next playtest, but will be in the one after.
 
Hey Capo, I notice that Harun Al-Rashid isn't on the first page's list. Are you removing him?
I'd vote for keeping him. If any of the Arab leaders get the axe, I'd vote Abu Bakr.
 
Hey Capo, I notice that Harun Al-Rashid isn't on the first page's list. Are you removing him?
I'd vote for keeping him. If any of the Arab leaders get the axe, I'd vote Abu Bakr.

Harun is still in, that was a mistake on my part.
 
HEY! Playing AGAINST Michael Collins (aka "The Big Guy" aka "Mícheál Ó Coileáin") is not allowed in this mod!!! He is a hero of mine!

But yeah, TAdF is correct on all points. Although I'd say slightly exaggerated.

EDIT: Haiti is going to be an extremely fun civ BTW, in fact I have already donated to them. And I'm thinking of promising donating at least two bucks more a DL for the module pack Haiti is in. :goodjob:

(based on the original DLs I think that is around 500 dollars American in addition to the money I have already donated, so I think it is a worthy cause)

At 1st: shouldn't be too hard. There is an <bAIPlayable> tag. :p

At 2nd: Are you planning to put a cap on the donations? What if someone was to... i don't know.. download it repeatedly? :mischief:
 
If you add a Libya civ and a Gaddafi leaderhead, I'd be happy and I'd even donate! :)
 
Hehe, this was quick ;) TAdF is another big supporter for Libya :goodjob:
Keep in mind though, that even if Capo is willing to add this civ too, it won't happen very soon.
Maybe somewhere in the last few modpacks...

Btw, I just noticed that I mistyped Libya both on my civilizations and leaders sheet :crazyeye:
 
If you add a Libya civ and a Gaddafi leaderhead, I'd be happy and I'd even donate! :)

Maybe, but mostly because I like Sublime too.

Anyway, on a side note, this is EXACTLY why I don't want to discuss new civs or leaders for the new civs. People start talking about them and making requests and it only distracts us from the actual mod, which is more important IMO.

EDIT: So I did some quick research to see if the Berber and Libyan civ should be the same, well I decided they shouldn't, but what was interesting to me was seeing a list of people who are either Berbers or descended from Berbers. According to Wikipedia (which I know is not the most reliable source) Napoleon Bonaparte and Morgan Freeman are both Berbers or are of Berber ancestry. I had no idea.
 
Anyway, on a side note, this is EXACTLY why I don't want to discuss new civs or leaders for the new civs. People start talking about them and making requests and it only distracts us from the actual mod, which is more important IMO.

That is exactly where we do not agree. The modpack civs are exactly as important as the first 38 civs you include in the first release. What's more, I think this is one of the main things where Diplomacy can be better than many other big mods: giving the exactly awesome quality in every aspect of the game for all the civs. Unit, building and leader art, unique personalities and diplomacy texts, custom music and sounds, carefully balanced UUs and UBs, the 14 traits and trait combos as perfectly "balanced" as possible, and we can continue this list...
But the most important thing is that all of these are for every civ and all of the leaders!!!!

Having said that, I respect your view of things, and I even agree the first priority is that the mod itself should be perfectly balanced in all ways possible. Thus I always try to separate everything to base things and modpack things.

But I only agree with that because those civs comes earlier
In my point of view the only difference of the other civs/leaders should be that they are availeable later with modpacks, otherwise the base civs shouldn't be superior in anything.
Just to give an example, LHs: If some of the add-on civs have more then two quality leaders, I don't get why all of them can't be in. Speaking of Mexico, Italy, Poland, Iran, Austria, Hungary, maybe a couple more. I can't see why these civs would be inferior to some of the base civs, especially when we are speaking of leaders.
Btw not many custom civs have 3-4 quality leaderheads, so we are talking about 8-10 LHs for the whole mod
 
I would definitely like to have the modular leaders and civs just as good as the other ones. That is why they are all flavored and I have strict guidelines for art quality. My only point is we should first make sure the main leaders are balanced, and then from there balance the modular leaders on a case by case basis. That's all I'm saying.

Part of the reason I am doing my mod this way, rather than the CivGOLD style where they just go "all in" (to use a gambling idiom) is because sometimes you don't want to play against a random, and to many peoples' minds irrelevant civilization. So I figured I'd leave it up to the player to decide which civs are in the game and which civs are not in the game. Plus it saves on loading times for some players.

So for that reason, I don't expect all of them to be used, which is why I don't want to take away a trait combo from a base leader because it will be used by another leader. That's my only real concern. I actually really like making modular civs, probably more than the mod itself to be honest. It's more fun for me.
 
Part of the reason I am doing my mod this way, rather than the CivGOLD style where they just go "all in" (to use a gambling idiom) is because sometimes you don't want to play against a random, and to many peoples' minds irrelevant civilization. So I figured I'd leave it up to the player to decide which civs are in the game and which civs are not in the game. Plus it saves on loading times for some players.

Yes, I'm aware of that, and have no problems with it at all. It certainly has advantages
But if someone likes only 8 civs from all the modpacks, and adds that 8 to his personal version of Diplomacy, those 8 civs should be as good as all the 38 original ones. In everything!
So this means for us, that every civ should be the same quality in the modpacks too

To stick to my example this means for me that I'm totally against the max 2 leaders for modular civs rule.
The only thing should matter is the quality of the LHs (and the overall 4 leader/civ rule of course)
 
Which is fine, although I can admit that part of the reason I didn't like Arpad for the mod is because I have never been happy with his LHs.
 
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