Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

Samus_au · May 7, 2010

Sir Ralph said:
No, and hardly I ever will. I'm buying my games exclusively online, and in the last time I purchased a lot downloadable stuff from Gamersgate, but no online distributor so far forced his spyware and questionable community accounts upon me.

When it was reveled that ciV would have an "in game community hub" (i believe that was the wording) did that bother you to start with? As it was known for a while that it was coming, though only now do we know its based on steam. If it was firaxis's backend system running the community hub thing, rather than steam, would you have any issues with that part of it?

And while I can see your objections to steam, its not spyware. A key part of spyware is that it installs itself either pretending to be something else, or without your knowledge. We all know what steam is and that it comes with ciV. You can shut it down or uninstall it and it wont object, like real spyware does.

Thoughtful Thug · May 7, 2010

Blacklanner said:
The issue is the software being installed/running without informed consent. It doesn't matter so much what it does if its installed deceptively or runs without permission it is malware.

So you are saying by your definition that Steam isn't a malware since it is not a program that actively decieve you on whether it runs or not without your permission?

PieceOfMind · May 7, 2010

Chalks said:
[Citation needed]

Seriously.

Are you kidding? Do you seriously think Valve has never pissed anyone off?

Has Valve ever banned accounts from uers when VAC detected cheating? If you answer that question you'll probably provide yourself the citation you asked for.

If you still want examples, try this one:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/574860.html
Might be a stretch to say this guy was pissed off but I think it's fair to say he was close to it.

Sir Ralph · May 7, 2010

Samus_au said:
When it was reveled that ciV would have an "in game community hub" (i believe that was the wording) did that bother you to start with? As it was known for a while that it was coming, though only now do we know its based on steam. If it was firaxis's backend system running the community hub thing, rather than steam, would you have any issues with that part of it?

I didn't put much attention on all revealed features of Civ5 so far, mostly because a lot of them are speculations or wild guesses from vague announcements and I really can't be bothered to verify every fact. But the "community hub" sounds familiar. Frankly, I don't have much against an in-game community hub. Civ3 had Gamespy for crying out loud, but it didn't bother me because I could opt out. However, I can't opt out of steam. If I could, the whole thing would be a non-issue for me.

Sterf · May 7, 2010

PieceOfMind said:
Are you kidding? Do you seriously think Valve has never pissed anyone off?

Has Valve ever banned accounts from uers when VAC detected cheating? If you answer that question you'll probably provide yourself the citation you asked for.

If you still want examples, try this one:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/574860.html
Might be a stretch to say this guy was pissed off but I think it's fair to say he was close to it.

If you are VAC-banned you can't play on VAC-enabled servers. Pretty damn logical. Everything else you can still do (single-player, non-VAC servers). You don't get your account banned, that's nonsense.
Also, the idiot in that link got VAC-banned for using cheat-hacks in an online game. I'm glad people like that get banned from VAC-servers.

Blacklanner · May 7, 2010

Thoughtful Thug said:
So you are saying by your definition that Steam isn't a malware since it is not a program that actively decieve you on whether it runs or not without your permission?

Blacklanner said:
I wouldn't classify steam as malware. But a parasite program installed or caused to run by another program without consent of the user does qualify, even if that program doesn't do anything overtly malicious.

No i don't believe steam is malware

But i'm not a user, so i can't tell you it isn't for sure.

PieceOfMind · May 7, 2010

Sterf said:
If you are VAC-banned you can't play on VAC-enabled servers. Pretty damn logical. Everything else you can still do (single-player, non-VAC servers). You don't get your account banned, that's nonsense.
Also, the idiot in that link got VAC-banned for using cheat-hacks in an online game. I'm glad people like that get banned from VAC-servers.

Completely agreed. Doesn't change the fact that someone got pissed off at Valve which is what my point was. You're right his account wasn't banned. I should have said VAC-banned.

While I dislike cheaters as much as anyone, that thread (that I linked) is good evidence that many people just jump on the "haxor" bandwagon making such discussions extremely unproductive. It could lead people who feel they were unfairly banned to avoid complaining because they would just be ridiculed by all those who are quick to judge.

Steam being malware? That's a bit of a stretch.

I'd call it unnecessaryware, personally.

2K Elizabeth · May 7, 2010

Savoir10 said:
Are you confirming that Securom will not be a part of this games DRM. If so I better start looking for a new computer post haste. Excuse me I'm off to do my happy dance.

That's the case, yes.

EmpireOfCats · May 7, 2010

PieceOfMind said:
Do you seriously think Valve has never pissed anyone off?

Sure they do. Ask me about the release of L4D2 one year after L4D1. And then they screwed up the tone and give us terrible characters and ... anyway. If they ban cheaters, I'm all for it. In my book, this is an argument for Steam, not against it.

Thoughtful Thug · May 7, 2010

Also Steam is by far superior to Game For Windows Live on banning cheaters' accounts in multiplayer. I can pretty much verify that based on my experience of using both of them with the latter having the policy of telling you to take that problem to the developer. It can be quite frustrating to have a GFWL account. I happy that Take2 chose Steam.

NikNak · May 7, 2010

Chalks said:
Same here, never encountered it. EU servers here too.

US West. "Steam was unable to connect" is something I've come to expect on Fridays or when AAA game hits street date. To be fair, it doesn't last long, but any time in which I am not allowed to use the product I paid for is an annoyance.

Craxymaxy · May 7, 2010

CivFanMUC said:
It's not because of Steam. It's because one is forced to use Steam. If it was optional - no problem.
I for my part preordered a month ago - and cancelled this preorder today.

So your not going to buy civ because its hosted by Steam? I'm not a fan of civ but i am not going to lie to the board i am still going to buy it, don't get me wrong though i will be grumbling about it.

The_Coyote · May 7, 2010

@ Craxymaxy
even if i wasn´t the recipient of your question: Why should i change my behaviour i already did with DoW2. It didn´t bought the game because of exact the same reason. And i really liked the direction relic has developed the game.

Tbh i don´t expect that the impact of my decision will be be really that hard for the publisher (i´m sure it´s already calculated that a certain number of old players will be lost because of the decision), but it´s the only way i as customer have. And i only complain now because i like the game and would like to buy it under different circumstances.

The_J · May 7, 2010

Chalks said:
Man, how can anyone with any experience with the subject matter disagree with it? Everyone must dislike things from a position of absolute ignorance!

Do you dislike anal sex? Or do you dislike cocaine and the other kind of drugs? Why? Did you ever try it out? No? How can anybody, who doesn't have any experience with it, dislike it?
I can't understand it :crazyeye:

.

Avs · May 7, 2010

Thoughtful Thug said:
So you are saying by your definition that Steam isn't a malware since it is not a program that actively decieve you on whether it runs or not without your permission?

Your definition of spyware and malware is wrong. Also, by definition, since you initiated the installation of Steam, technically it cannot fall into those categories. Ever wonder why hundreds of thousands of programs are not picked up by traditional malware scanners? Your definition basically says 80% of Windows 7 and OS10.7 is spyware.

I wish you were just happy with the decision you WONT be playing CiV instead of spouting nonsense about spyware. There are such few posts far and between in this thread (and all the other new ones popping up about Steam) that have any value. Won't anyone think of the gamers who just want facts and not biased opinions?

Chalks · May 7, 2010

PieceOfMind said:
Are you kidding? Do you seriously think Valve has never pissed anyone off?

Has Valve ever banned accounts from uers when VAC detected cheating? If you answer that question you'll probably provide yourself the citation you asked for.

If you still want examples, try this one:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/574860.html
Might be a stretch to say this guy was pissed off but I think it's fair to say he was close to it.

Erm, sorry, by "Citation" I meant an example of something unreasonable Valve has done to piss off the entire community, not an example of some idiot nerd raging because he cheated and got banned for it.

I'm pretty sure everyone has done something to make someone annoyed at some point in history. That's not really relevant.

The_J said:
Do you dislike anal sex? Or do you dislike cocaine and the other kind of drugs? Why? Did you ever try it out? No? How can anybody, who doesn't have any experience with it, dislike it?
I can't understand it .

I don't dislike any of those things because I've not tried them. I have no desire to try them, but if I ever did try them, perhaps I would love them. I have no plans to try them though. How about you?

Congrats on failing to make a point. Have you learnt what the word "dislike" means yet or shall we keep going?

The_J · May 7, 2010

Chalks said:
I don't dislike any of those things because I've not tried them. I have no desire to try them, but if I ever did try them, perhaps I would love them. I have no plans to try them though. How about you?

I don't want to try these things out, because i'm relativly sure, that i will dislike them.
The same can be said for killing a man with your own hands. Do you dislike it? Do you want to try it out to see, if you maybe like it? No, you probably don't.

The point is: There are things, which i do not want to try. Point. My opinion.
I don't care, if other people like it, it doesn't matter at all for me.
And now, someone else wants to force me to try such a thing out.
No, that will not happen.

Chalks said:
Congrats on failing to make a point. Have you learnt what the word "dislike" means yet or shall we keep going?

Hey, it's a discussion board here, let's go on

.

Chalks · May 7, 2010

The_J said:
I don't want to try these things out, because i'm relativly sure, that i will dislike them.
The same can be said for killing a man with your own hands. Do you dislike it? Do you want to try it out to see, if you maybe like it? No, you probably don't.

The point is: There are things, which i do not want to try. Point. My opinion.
I don't care, if other people like it, it doesn't matter at all for me.
And now, someone else wants to force me to try such a thing out.
No, that will not happen.

You can remove the application when ever you want and it will be like it never existed and you have a very good incentive to try it.

There is no potential permanent damage here as there are in your stupid examples.

It is entirely your own decision if you want to do something illogical, but the point you are missing that if you decide to refuse to use the software no matter what - nobody cares. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

If someone says "Is steam any good?" the only true answer you can give is "I don't know".

Dale · May 7, 2010

salaminizer said:
kinda offtopic, but you're an important guy around here , so how do you feel AS A PLAYER (and a modder too) about the Babylon civ being exclusive to the deluxe edition and its possible implications (the first one that comes to mind is the impossibility of modding civilizations and leaders) ?

Personally, I don't mind that much about Steamworks.

But I am disappointed about how the day 1 DLC is being distributed. Buyers of the game are being discriminated against based on when and how they purchase the game. I MUST buy the deluxe version off Steam NOW to get maps and Babylon, for $30 USD more than I can get the game on day 1. If this DLC was available to all for eternity, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

As a modder I feel like 2K is taking all my work on Civ4 in one hand to sell Civ5, and horsehockyting in the other hand by not letting me mod the FULL Civ5.

kiwitt · May 7, 2010

Initially, I was anti-Steam, but grudgingly I will accept it. Why ?

1) Civ 5 is worth paying for
2) Civ 5 is worth protecting from Prirates

We have ourselves to blame for pirate prevention. Why ?

1) How many people know someone who has downloaded a pirate movie
2) What have you done to discourage them from doing it

As a "modder", I have spent over 1,000 hours just tweaking an existing mod, so I can appreciate the 1,000,000's of man-hours put into an entertainment production like a movie or a game.

Because we don't do anything to discourage people from "pirating", and respecting their work, no wonder the industries are looking at these controls.

Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

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