Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

  • Yes

    Votes: 853 50.7%
  • No

    Votes: 677 40.2%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 152 9.0%

  • Total voters
    1,682
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Yeah, because regulating your economy should require one click and a drag rather than long-term planning. roflmao.

The problem with dragging down research in the slider is that it can grind research to a halt, allowing people with a stronger economy to leave you in the dust. You obviously cannot comprehend how commerce is related with research not only in Civ 4, but in real life as well. The United States is clearly would find a cure for cancer before India dispite India's advantage in population.

Yeah, you have a guaranteed partner and punching bag. You can pump them up with tech, units, and gold. That certainly makes a game more interesting.




Nuff said.

If you make him too strong, he'll defect and will become an obstacle just like all the other civs. You're assuming that all Vassal State deals are formed by capitulation, which is entirely wrong.
 
Oh, really, so thats what those 5 year plans were, right?

Not even to mention that it was probably the fastest shift towards industrialization in global history, the fact is that an economy takes long term planning to be successful, and that absolute shifts in economic focus have very rarely led to prosperity.

Civ V has its flaws, but the core mechanics have consistently been argued to be, if not equal, but vastly superior to Civ IVs in terms of depth.

V combat > IV combat
Social policies > Civics
True diplomacy > manipulating numbers
Real economic management > Instant sliders
Happiness balance > Cottage factory
City States > Religon/Espionage/Corporations combined
Accessible Navy > Impossible Navy
nonlinear Macro > formulaic Micro

These all have been argued to the death, I've yet to see IV win on any of these.

What crack have you been smoking? There's no big agreement that Social Policies are better than Civics, or trading post spam are better than the sliders, or city states are better than religion/espionage/corporations, or most of this other stuff. It's only agreed that Civ 5's combat engine is better.
 
The poll seems to indicate that it is a black and white issue. I mean come on, do you really think this game is like Civ Revolution. I sure don't. It is more of a game wedge between Civilization Revolution and Civ 4 and its expansion packs.
 
The poll seems to indicate that it is a black and white issue. I mean come on, do you really think this game is like Civ Revolution. I sure don't. It is more of a game wedge between Civilization Revolution and Civ 4 and its expansion packs.

I think it's an okay game, but it doesn't live up to the Civilization standards. I've been playing Civ since Civilization 2 and liked all of them, but this one is another animal. It should have been branded as a sequel of Civ Rev, which would make it a lovely game for everyone. Us, people who like complex strategy games, would happily wait a little longer for a proper Civilization V.
 
anyone who answers no is simply kidding themselves and trying to cope with a broken and bad product. if i never played civ 4 i might love civ 5. probelm is civ 4 is better. a lo tbetter
 
I think it's an okay game, but it doesn't live up to the Civilization standards. I've been playing Civ since Civilization 2 and liked all of them, but this one is another animal. It should have been branded as a sequel of Civ Rev, which would make it a lovely game for everyone. Us, people who like complex strategy games, would happily wait a little longer for a proper Civilization V.
I was looking at my post again and seen that I made a mistake. It is more like Civilization 5 is a fugly adopted child of Civilization Rev and Civ 4 to come think of it.
 
The problem with dragging down research in the slider is that it can grind research to a halt, allowing people with a stronger economy to leave you in the dust. You obviously cannot comprehend how commerce is related with research not only in Civ 4, but in real life as well. The United States is clearly would find a cure for cancer before India dispite India's advantage in population.

Except that Civ V takes into account infrastructure when it calculates science. Remember that it isn't all about who has more people, but who has, through a ratio of science/person has the most research being committed. Which makes sense. Canada puts more money than the states into research on alot of things, but the states just has an advantage in choice through numbers.



If you make him too strong, he'll defect and will become an obstacle just like all the other civs. You're assuming that all Vassal State deals are formed by capitulation, which is entirely wrong.[/QUOTE]

In my +800 hours of BtS, I've never seen that once.
 
anyone who answers no is simply kidding themselves and trying to cope with a broken and bad product. if i never played civ 4 i might love civ 5. probelm is civ 4 is better. a lo tbetter



Alot better now.

Seriously, at release, Civ IV was much worse off.
 
What crack have you been smoking? There's no big agreement that Social Policies are better than Civics, or trading post spam are better than the sliders, or city states are better than religion/espionage/corporations, or most of this other stuff. It's only agreed that Civ 5's combat engine is better.

Well... yeah, there kinda has, I haven't seen a single debate that ended with Civics winning.

And lets face it, religion/espionage/corporations were all completley unnecessary, just contrived simplistic crap heaved onto the core game.

And honestly? I also haven't seen Sliders ever win out over long term economic management, either.
 
If what 2K said was true "We wanted a simpler game to attact new gamers", that doesn't have to mean that it was "dumbed down"? Sure there are a lot of things in the game that needs to be improved but it could still (or eventually) adhere to the maxim of a "simple but deep" game.

Think back on Civ2. Do you recall how incredibly simple that game was to play? It 's almost like a pre-school game compared to Civ5. But a lot of civers had (and still have) fun playing that.
 
Alot better now.

Seriously, at release, Civ IV was much worse off.

i can agree with that

but civ 5 will need a lot, and i mean a LOT added to make it as good as civ 4.

-religion
-smarter AI with the 1UPT
-better army movement
-diplomacy that isn't random and nonsensical

just to start
 
I totally agree, it has a way to go if its to surpass BtS, but I'd take it any day over IV vanilla.
 
Definitely dumbed down and overproduced. Both leading to a very boring experience. Been playing civ for 17 years, and while civ4 was not without its quirks, it was a whole lot of fun. This is not to say civ5 lacks some interesting features (hexes are better than squares, and the 2d tile display remotely reminds me of the Great Ur-Civ) but overall it's just... PLAIN BORING! Tried playing several times this weekend, but it just left me with a feeling that I don't care about most things that kept me addicted to previous versions.
 
Except that Civ V takes into account infrastructure when it calculates science. Remember that it isn't all about who has more people, but who has, through a ratio of science/person has the most research being committed. Which makes sense. Canada puts more money than the states into research on alot of things, but the states just has an advantage in choice through numbers..


Infastructure? You mean the libraries and universities that give the city research bonuses based on population? That's hardly realistic provided that these buildings require commerce to run effectively. The fixed upkeep costs on the buildings are unrealistic, and take away from the game entirely. In Civ 4 terms, America has all the permanent alliances and money-strong cities nevessary to hold such an advantage.


In my +800 hours of BtS, I've never seen that once.

Only because the AI abuses its vassals, and capitulated civs require a certain land and population ratio before it can break away. Civs that become your vassal by pure whim can quit whenever, and this has happened to me several times.
 
-religion
I honestly don't get all the fuss about the loss of religion. For the most part it was a pointless if amusing geegaw, its only use being to help form diplomatic blocs, a patch over a crack in the existing diplomacy system rather than a feature in itself.
 
UPDATE ON POLL (9/25): As you can see, more than 1 in every 4 players think that Civ 5 has been dumb down. Numbers don't lie, this release is below Civ par. I do realize that some players may like the dumber AI and that may be the reason for their liking of Civ 5.

UPDATE ON POLL (9/27): Now the numbers continue to rise as 1 in every 3 players agree that Civ 5 has been dumb down, while 11 percent are uncertain.


1. Don't like the city states, or atleast how they are implemented too much into the game. They are just annoying and uninteresting.

2. Bring back religion. They should have just improved on this feature instead of omitting it.

Civ5 is too much of a "choose your own adventure" instead of what should be a "create your own destiny."

Also, those who want to flame me, yes I understand that this is just a release of the game, and I do understand how Civ 4 was when it was released. I have made my opinion in light of that knowledge. :)


More to come...

You seem to be conviently forgetting that over half of civ 5 players (who voted in this poll) disagree with you completley, your in the minority.
 
As a whole, no, the game hasn't been dumbed down. Empire happiness is a dumbed down element, in the sense that it rolls city health, happiness, and corruption into one neat bow, which is wrongheaded. Other than that, the game is quite similar in complexity to CivIV (although it's hiding that complexity more than CivIV did) and even has a combat system that is actually much more difficult to master. Reports of Civ Rev 2 were greatly exaggerated.

Edit: I'd be curious to find out what percent of those that said the game is dumbed down, have actually played it seriously (not 100 turns, and then closed the game in disgust). It's a new product, and it takes time for it to sink in.
 
Well... yeah, there kinda has, I haven't seen a single debate that ended with Civics winning.

And lets face it, religion/espionage/corporations were all completley unnecessary, just contrived simplistic crap heaved onto the core game.

And honestly? I also haven't seen Sliders ever win out over long term economic management, either.

There was no debate that ended with Policies winning either. The Policies are unrealistic. Unless you really believe that countries pick and choose magic buttons that improve commerce, military strength, etc that last indefinitely instead of different forms of government, I'm sure you'll agree with me.

Religion and espionage were important aspects of the game that could have been truly creat with a little tweaking. However, I do agree with you about corporations.

Also,
long term economic management =/= trading post spam.
 
Infastructure? You mean the libraries and universities that give the city research bonuses based on population? That's hardly realistic provided that these buildings require commerce to run effectively. The fixed upkeep costs on the buildings are unrealistic, and take away from the game entirely. In Civ 4 terms, America has all the permanent alliances and money-strong cities nevessary to hold such an advantage.

The maintnence is not only realistic, but it forces the player to specialize, to treat buildings as more than just generic upgrades. And yes, education is the gateway to the sciences, not money.

And more like: In Civ IV terms, America has hamlets spread across the land, everywhere possible, to produce science.




Only because the AI abuses its vassals, and capitulated civs require a certain land and population ratio before it can break away. Civs that become your vassal by pure whim can quit whenever, and this has happened to me several times.

This has never happened to me, then again, I didn't buff my vassal in military for no reason either, because it didn't make sense.
 
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