Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Manifest Destiny 14
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 24
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 18
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 18
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 18
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 23
Barbary Corsairs 20
Achaemenid Legacy 21
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 23
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 20
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20
 
Wabango dude you gotta give reasons, you've been told over and over.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 24
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 16
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 18
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 18
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 20
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 23
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 20
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20

AL : Golden ages rock. Free culture, gold and production through more time than any other else.

VF : Nothing spectacular here. I prefer ''passive'' bonuses. Though after next patch this UA should get more love. From now it's sub-par.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 24
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 16
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 18
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 16
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 20
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 23
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20

Father Governs Children (+1): With policies and religion in the game, this ability is really like giving Siam the benefits without having a diplo hit and without doing much at all.

Hellenic League (-2): The above is the same to Hellenic League but without the additional benefits from the City States. This effectively makes this ability a handicap like playing a generic civ without identity.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 24
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 16
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 18
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 16
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20

The Glory of Rome: like I've mentioned before.

Barbary Corsairs: pay 1/3 on naval unit maintenance? Yes navy is important, but naval maintenance is still a small proportion compared to land unit's. Chance of capturing enemy ships in melee naval combat? Few melee naval combats are fought in a whole game. No thanks.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25 (+1)
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 14 (-2)
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 18
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 16
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20

Free Harbors are still free trade routes for coastal cities. That alone is amazing, ignoring everything else.

Viking Fury...meh. Any UA that is made more to hurt your opponent than help you won't end up being very good, because...well, it doesn't help you.

Father Governs Children (+1): With policies and religion in the game, this ability is really like giving Siam the benefits without having a diplo hit and without doing much at all.

Hellenic League (-2): The above is the same to Hellenic League but without the additional benefits from the City States. This effectively makes this ability a handicap like playing a generic civ without identity.

That's simply not true. Siam can never drop their influence loss to 0, as Greece can. They are actually totally different civs. Siam, of course, should concern themselves with CS's, but they are no better at keeping allies than any other civ. Greece IS better at keeping allies but otherwise gets no bonus with CS's.

Comparing them like that is like saying Wayfinding is worse than River Warlord because at Astronomy Songhai can explore the ocean too. The reasoning is odd because the UA's make for totally different styles of play.
 
Viking Fury...meh. Any UA that is made more to hurt your opponent than help you won't end up being very good, because...well, it doesn't help you.

Question: Should we be judging UAs as they are now or should we anticipate their strength post-patch?

Viking Fury as it exists now is ok, but nothing to phone home about. Viking Fury post-patch may be the best warmonger UA in the game.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19 (-2) i always seem to have to many gg as it is
Viking Fury 14
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19 (+1) it can be quite useful if used well
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 16
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20
 
Manifest Destiny 16
That's simply not true. Siam can never drop their influence loss to 0, as Greece can. They are actually totally different civs. Siam, of course, should concern themselves with CS's, but they are no better at keeping allies than any other civ. Greece IS better at keeping allies but otherwise gets no bonus with CS's.

Comparing them like that is like saying Wayfinding is worse than River Warlord because at Astronomy Songhai can explore the ocean too. The reasoning is odd because the UA's make for totally different styles of play.

I dont think you get what i meant by that post. What i was trying to say was that since there are ways to effectively have friendship ad infinitum, then its like the game gave siam the added CS benefits without any consequences at all effectively having a major advantage to others from happiness, food, culture, faith or added units. also having allies to back you up if they are near your enemy or your borders when attacked.


Therefore, having said that there are effective measures in having CS as friends by using religion and other ways like Pledge to Protect and Patronage Policies, What does that give Greece against other civs? nothing. thats why i say it feels like a handicap by being a generic civ. I must concede though that what greece may be going for it is that it can take other religion beliefs, but then whats so special about that with other civs specially to byzantium?

The downvote to greece is not just because i voted for Siam but it is just useless compared to other UA remaining on the list as far as i am concerned. oh and those coup as well, but lets not get into that.
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12 (-2)
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 17
Hellenic League 17 (+1)
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 22
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 20
Nobel Prize 21
River Warlord 20

Viking Fury - While I appreciate how they tried to create how the vikings did not CONQUER cities as much as they raided cities, and this is more historically accurate, it is a very weak bonus. As I've said before, they should greatly increase the amount of gold vikings get from raiding and pillaging. Possibly make each raid/turn of pillaging a city give you as much gold and culture as you produce for the turn. For example if you are making 25 gold per turn and 25 culture per turn, if you burn 2 farms, you get 50 gold and 50 culture. This encourages them to pillage a countryside, but not necessarily capture a city. Thoughts?

Hellenic league - while on the surface it appears that Siam gets more out of citystates, consider this: Siam gets more from Maritime, Culture and Faith Citystates. But it still pays the same for all of it. Greece pays less to maintain allies, so they can afford to have more overall city states. Now Im too lazy to do the math, but Im sure that theres a break even amount of gold where Greece will get more citystate culture than siam will (assuming just buying culture citystates)
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15 (-2) I don't need "brutes" in my army... especially if i can build super cheap pikemen to fill the same meatshield role. -25% maintenence is OK, not spectacular.
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 23 (+1) Another one of those fantastic abilities that needs votes now before people start downvoting it because they don't use it! +2 happy compared to 0 happy is so damn huge early game... 3 luxes improved, and trade them all away equals roughly 720 gold and 6 happy compared to only 720 gold... that's more than enough for one extra early city.
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 18
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 19
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15 (-2)
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 24 (+1)
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 16 (-2)
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20

The D.E.I.C. Allows you to garner massive amounts of money without worrying as much about stunting your population growth in the early game. While it's true the Arabian Bazaar does it better - that one takes a while longer to get going. D.E.I.C. is simply put amazing.

S.C.o.G is just too random. Either it completely breaks the game in your favor, or you never really know it's there. Not really something I fancy.
 
I dont think you get what i meant by that post. What i was trying to say was that since there are ways to effectively have friendship ad infinitum, then its like the game gave siam the added CS benefits without any consequences at all effectively having a major advantage to others from happiness, food, culture, faith or added units. also having allies to back you up if they are near your enemy or your borders when attacked.


Therefore, having said that there are effective measures in having CS as friends by using religion and other ways like Pledge to Protect and Patronage Policies, What does that give Greece against other civs? nothing. thats why i say it feels like a handicap by being a generic civ. I must concede though that what greece may be going for it is that it can take other religion beliefs, but then whats so special about that with other civs specially to byzantium?

The downvote to greece is not just because i voted for Siam but it is just useless compared to other UA remaining on the list as far as i am concerned. oh and those coup as well, but lets not get into that.

Ok, I understand now. I thought you meant that due to the Patronage opener and same religion bonus, Siam could keep CS's just as well as Greece (ignoring the fact that Greece could get the same bonuses on top of it's UA).

I would say, with this, however, that what makes Greece good in comparison is that they don't really need to raise the resting influence of CS's. If they have their religion in a CS and go Patronage, that CS is Greece's forever (if you get hit by a coup, you need to put more money into them, influence is a HUGE deterrent to coups).

That being said, I 100% think Siam's UA should probably get to the top 5, at least. I just hope it gets there on reasoning like you expressed here.


Question: Should we be judging UAs as they are now or should we anticipate their strength post-patch?

Viking Fury as it exists now is ok, but nothing to phone home about. Viking Fury post-patch may be the best warmonger UA in the game.

Post patch, Viking Fury will allow you to heal twice as much assuming no GW, no rough terrain, no gaps in improvements, damage on the previous turn between ~50 and 75...Mounted units are better off for healing but worse at taking cities than normal infantry. Siege can't move, set up, and attack anyway, and ranged units will generally have a buddy on either side that close to a city.

That's way way too conditional for 25 more health.
 
Post patch, Viking Fury will allow you to heal twice as much assuming no GW, no rough terrain, no gaps in improvements, damage on the previous turn between ~50 and 75...Mounted units are better off for healing but worse at taking cities than normal infantry. Siege can't move, set up, and attack anyway, and ranged units will generally have a buddy on either side that close to a city.

That's way way too conditional for 25 more health.

"Twice as much" as what? Most units don't auto heal. A Viking archer or melee unit can attack, pillage-heal, and move onto a fresh tile on the same turn. The next turn they can do the same thing. Any other archer or melee unit can attack and pillage heal once before the party is over.

Embarked Vikings can swoop in from several tiles away (more if they have bonuses to water movement), attack, heal, and pillage on the same turn. No one else can do anything remotely like that. Viking cavalry are can attack and pillage-heal multiple tiles in the same turn.

I'd say that's pretty sweet. Mind you, the best pillager will still be the Sipahi, which would still be in the running in the UU thread if this patch came out earlier.

Edit: Don't forget that berserkers also have a movement bonus!
 
Wouldn't it be funny if Vikings got culture from pillaging? That, my dear sir, is true barbarism.


Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 17 (-2)
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 18
Dutch East India Company 24 (+1)
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 17 (+1)
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20

Ingenuity: Massively overpowered with the broken GS's in vanilla. Now, in G&K, largely unimpressive. Sure it's useful and all, but there are UA's that are more fun even in regards to science.


Seven Cities of Gold:
I'm gonna stand up for this one. Yes, it's silly and very contextual, but it's actually really huge fun to play!
I had an Immortal game the other day where i decided to play it as a real conquistador, looking for these golden cities and conquering/settling near all the Natural Wonders.

My pantheon was +4 :c5faith: from natural wonders. I found Uluru (2 :c5food: , 6 :c5faith:) and settled next to it early. Suddenly i have a tile with +4 :c5food: and +20 :c5faith: per turn! Turns out the Pantheon Bonus is also doubled, no matter the NW! Ridiculous, as we're only 30 turns in. Naturally, i founded the first religion and promptly destroyed all competition on the continent with holy warriors. Also acquired a CS hogging the Rock of Gibraltar, giving me a tile with (+4:c5food:+10:c5gold:and +8:c5faith:)- In another spot, i found Mt. Sinai (originally +8 :c5faith: - now it's a whopping 24 per turn!).

I wouldn't say it's overpowered, as we're usually talking one or two tiles in the game to have this kind of yield, and they're hard to fight for as well. The yield from an NW is also something that can be matched by anything else that's easier to build, like GP improvements. Krakatoa is nothing compared to a settled GS academy. But this is such a fun way to play, it really made Spain (and it's bad UU's) a good thing for me!
Now, i am Klaus Kinski. I am Aguirre. I am the wrath of god!
 
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 17
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 16 (-2)
Dutch East India Company 25 (+1)
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 17
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20

The Dutch UA is obviously great for an explosive start and it stays useful throughout the game.

I picked mongol terror for the down vote, since city states aren't that often my target, unless I'm playing with the Dutch and they got marshes/floodplains :D.
 
I picked mongol terror for the down vote, since city states aren't that often my target, unless I'm playing with the Dutch and they got marshes/floodplains :D.

Agreed, My Dutch are ravenous warmongers when it comes to Marshes and Floodplains. Woe be to the civ that gets a coastal start and has floodplains!!
 
CanaDutch's vote


Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 17
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 12
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18 - 2 = 16
Bushido 20
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 16 + 1 = 17
Dutch East India Company 25
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 17
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20

The Great Warpath's downvote: C'mon devs. Would it have really killed the Iroquois to give them the same abilities as the Inca but for forests and jungles instead? Yeesh.

The Mongol Terror: Most people forget that the Mongols actually have two Unique Abilities. Yes, the City State related one sucks outside of the Mongol scenario.

However, the +1 movement to mounted units freaking rocks, especially with Keshiks. Keshiks would not be as awesome if they were restricted to the 3 movement points Knights had in vanilla, or the 4 movement points Knights had in Gods and Kings. I also love YOINKING zero HP cities with Horseman units...that were four tiles away at the beginning of the turn. It's like the Golden Age movement bonus the Persians get, except the Mongols have it on ALL THE TIME.
 
A lot of people are forgetting the other part of the Danish UA. The ability to disembark and only cost 1 movement point and every unit in the sea gains an extra movement point + an additional sight. The pillaging atm is not the major part of this UA. People don't seem to understand Denmark is made as a Blitzkrieg civilization. Being able to move all of your units into a cities range in 1 turn and being able to fire/attack the same turn allows for amazing power. Its also amazing for defense. Station your units in the ocean/water/lakes and watch as any troops that dare journey in your territory get outflanked and massacred.

Go commerce + tech bonuses + great lighthouse. If you have 7 movement in the water, if you move onto any land you wil have 6 movement points. Meaning you can move siege units 4 moves inland and still fire. Add that to melee unit upgrades (Upgrading Berserkers allows you to keep the no cost to pillage ability) and you can have melee units that can heal up to 6 times.

Oh - the Danish UA also allows you to ignore ZOC. Thats an often forgotten feature. As ZOC takes the max movement points that a unit normally has on land, its possible to ignore ZOC more than once. (For a Berserker IE ignore it twice, and have 2 leftover moves).

Its not just the pillaging.

And for archipelago maps while it kicks off a little slower than Polynesia - being able to have a scout/horseman land on an island explore it and then return back to the water all on the same turn is incredibly powerful.
----
Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 21
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 17
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 13 (+1)
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 18 (-2) Post GK this UA just has so little effect.
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 16
Dutch East India Company 25
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 17
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20
 
Manifest Destiny 17
Trade Caravans 19
Diplomatic Marriage 19
Sacrificial Captives 20
Ingenuity 17
Patriarchate of Constantinople 20
Phoenician Heritage 25
Druidic Lore 18
Art of War 19
Viking Fury 13
Monument Builders 20
Sun Never Sets 21
Spirit of Adwa 19
Ancien Regime 21
Furor Teutonicus 15
Hellenic League 17
Scourge of God 20
Great Andean Road 21
The Great Warpath 18
Bushido 18
Scholars of the Jade Hall 20
The Long Count 21
Mongol Terror 16
Dutch East India Company 25
Barbary Corsairs 18
Achaemenid Legacy 22
Wayfinding 20
The Glory of Rome 24
Siberian Riches 21
Father Governs Children 21
Seven Cities of Gold 17
Nobel Prize 22
River Warlord 20

Manifest Destiny : I like this UA. It fits well with my playstyle. I'm a player that like to buy tiles in most games for almost all cities anytime in the game just to get what i want faster. Only civ that can settle in most unusual places(and buy 3rd ring stuff right away) without bankrupt. And scouting is far more effective.

My no-writing deity game(vanilla) was done with Washington and i couldn't get better (underrated)civ for that challenge. His UA is exactly the same than before.

Trade Caravans : Late bonus is hard to judge. Under tall strategy it's less powwerful than wide. Double oil when i don't use oil that much? Good for selling extra ones but it's already too late to make a difference.
 
Top Bottom