Venice discussion

anandus said:
I do wonder if Austria's UA will have changed, though. It seems too similar to Venice's.
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Needs to be re-worked. It can't be multi-continental. They were never colonial nor did they have an international sphere of influence. I would go purchasing of CS's with land adjecent to your it's borders, such that you may only buy when you are touching. Otherwise, purchase only those CS's on the same continent as Vienna. Just needs some kind of cap.
 
I'm pretty sure that I will be withholding an opinion until I try it. There is simply no way to judge Venice based on current experience.

It certainly seems like you would want to rock some conquest initially, but then who do you trade with?

Do you beeline Optics, and delay markets and trading posts?

Do you just keep it small and make National Wonders?
 
GoodSarmatian said:
Anyway, the ability looks very useful, but the Merchant of venice is a disappointment. It's like a toned down version of Austria's ability, and I hate Austria's ability. There can be no peace with Maria Theresa. Everytime I see her I know I'll have to go to war to keep her busy and too poor to destroy a City State. I'll probably need to do the same to Venice when I see them in a game.
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Not just that. The existence of the Merchant of Venice means you (and AI's) could theoretically receive one from Patronage's Educated Elite (unless that SP changes) just like how one can receive Mongolia's Khan....
 
Sooooo... Why, exactly, is Venice Cream on Purple? :confused:
I toyed with the idea of having their most obvious color (Gold on Light Blue, since anything red and gold is already taken) already taken by the other unrevealed civ, but that is not case...
It couldn't be because it was too close to France, because this current choice is too close to Rome...

Why this color scheme? What sense does it make?

In regards to mechanics, I think they can be a fun civilization. :) Not being able to build cities seems like a challenge, but it does mean you can concentrate your first turns on growing and protecting Venice.
Later, once you start rolling in puppets, you can kick an immense amount of :c5gold: gold and :c5culture: culture per turn - lots of Social Policies, lots of buildings everywhere! Using the extra Trade Routes, you can either gain crazy amounts of gold, or give Venice EVEN MORE food or production. Venice will be THE CITY of the entire game - it will have the biggest population, all the buildings, a variety of wonders. Were this Venice real, it would be a sight like none other!
Using Religion for growth bonus will certainly help! Having The Hanging Gardens and the Temple of Artemis is no-brainer.
All your puppets will have :c5gold: gold focus, so lots of Merchants everywhere - they also seem to gain more gold per Trade Mission.

I'm just not sure where the Great Galleass fits in all this... But I guess they needed some military UU...


I'm just really really torn about the color-scheme... :sad:
 
Biologist said:
Something that strikes me as odd is the presentation of the civ, which seems a bit unprofessional. The Civ V Civilopedia isn't exactly a Great Work, but still... it almost looks like they just read Dandolo's Wikipedia page and copied it over while paraphrasing slightly. The phrase where it says Dandolo "took the cross" is almost directly plagiarized from the Wikipedia entry.

That and we have the great person "Merchant of Venice" and the "Great Galleass". Must be a really great civ. Honestly, if I didn't know better I'd say something is rotten in Denmark...

As for the proposed mechanics, I still have doubts about a civ that only puppets other cities and can only buy things in order to shape city growth. What about control over the populace of puppet cities? The AI governor is rather incompetent, and if all your cities but the capital are set to gold focus and no tiles can be bought, there might be some frustrating difficulties increasing population size or acquiring new resources. Another problem there: if an existing city doesn't have a resource you need (say Iron, or Uranium), I guess you just have to trade with an opponent for it and hope they don't DoW you or break the deal later? Resource security seems to be an issue here.

I'm not going to guess whether only buying things in noncapital cities will prove practical, because the gold-earning mechanics of BNW are very different from those of G&K. I am going to say that I hope Venice pulls in tons and tons of gold, otherwise city improvements and defensive units will come very, very slowly.

Overall, somewhat intrigued and rather nonplussed. I can't quite picture how this will work as a civ, but that should make it interesting to try.
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I hear ya. There were a coupla things about the way the Shoshone were written up too that also made me wrinkle my nose. Whilst I'm perfectly willing to entertain the likelihood of this info being legit, I can also see it not being. Without any hard evidence to the contrary at the mo I'm inclined to roll with it. But a surprise in the the next week or so wouldn't be too surprising for me I don't think. Regardless if this is all legit I am excited about both new civs and looking forward to playing them as they have thus far been portrayed.
 
JSMCAG said:
Sooooo... Why, exactly, is Venice Cream on Purple? :confused:
I toyed with the idea of having their most obvious color (Gold on Light Blue, since anything red and gold is already taken) already taken by the other unrevealed civ, but that is not case...
It couldn't be because it was too close to France, because this current choice is too close to Rome...

Why this color scheme? What sense does it make?
Click to expand...

It's interesting, if you look at the Civ Atlas map, all the civs in the same area are similar shades and colors.

-Venice
-Rome
-Byzantium
-Carthage
-Greece
-France
 
I was excited for Venice, but now I'm disappointed a bit. I didn't like the UA and the "Great Galleass" looks boringly generic. I never liked to play against Austria, and now I have to worry about these "Merchants of Venice" as well?

I'm definitely not eager to play with or against them...
 
Say "goodbye" to Diplo victory and an easier time in the WC with Venice in the game! And of course in a game with Austria and Venice 8/ they better be your first target if you're planning a Diplo victory!
 
There is a difference between Venice and Austria. Austria can grab a city-state anytime they have enough cash. Venice has to wait for a MoV to spawn in order to grab a city-state.

Even with slotting every gold building, having gardens, and DoFing Sweden, they won't be able to beat Austria in a race to snatch up all the city-states.
 
Is anyone aware that you get a free Great Person finishing Liberty? That could be used to get another puppet city.

Don't you need to found or annex your first four cities to get the monuments and aqueducts from Tradition? Neither tree seems better than the other for Venice.
 
The point of tradition would be the growth bonuses in the capital. With crazy internal sea routes you could probably grow Venice really quickly. At that point Monarchy becomes really useful. Aristocracy could be nice if you choose to play peaceful for awhile and let the Ai build your puppet empire. Build those culture wonders with the hammers saved on settlers.

Piety could be another option. Founding a religion could be hard without additional cities, so the boosted faith could be useful.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
There is a difference between Venice and Austria. Austria can grab a city-state anytime they have enough cash. Venice has to wait for a MoV to spawn in order to grab a city-state.

Even with slotting every gold building, having gardens, and DoFing Sweden, they won't be able to beat Austria in a race to snatch up all the city-states.
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But they can puppet CS not allied to them, which can be extremely annoying playing against them.

Scaramanga said:
Is anyone aware that you get a free Great Person finishing Liberty? That could be used to get another puppet city.

Don't you need to found or annex your first four cities to get the monuments and aqueducts from Tradition? Neither tree seems better than the other for Venice.
Click to expand...
Nope. You get free buildings to cities you own. And free aqueducts from tradition finisher even works with puppets. (doesn't work retroactively with puppets though. Legalism don't work with puppets.)
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
There is a difference between Venice and Austria. Austria can grab a city-state anytime they have enough cash. Venice has to wait for a MoV to spawn in order to grab a city-state.

Even with slotting every gold building, having gardens, and DoFing Sweden, they won't be able to beat Austria in a race to snatch up all the city-states.
Click to expand...

Venice doesn't need an MoV to get a city-state.

They can just go conquer one.
 
I wonder what how the "settler" SP works now, if they have changed it and also, how high difficulty level games work, the level where the AI starts with two settler, is that changed or what.

Edit: I know that you will probably not select Liberty, but what if you do.
 
Two things:

1. Venice better be coded to start on a coastline with open ocean access.

2. I hope that, given the fact they can only found a capital, they've been given a unique city style complete with canals.

Overall Venice sounds like it will suit my play style, but I loathe both of the uniques. Like others have said, the Great Galleass sounds dull and uncreative, and the Merchant of Venice sounds a bit cheesy (though at least it ties in with the UA).

It occurred to me independently, but I also saw someone else suggest the idea of an Arsenal National Wonder as opposed to the Great Galleass. Given the small size of Venice, National Wonders are going to be a cinch to build, so I'm in favor of it personally. I imagine it would boost the effectiveness of all your naval ships, which would indirectly create 'great Galleass' anyway.
 
Scaramanga said:
Is anyone aware that you get a free Great Person finishing Liberty? That could be used to get another puppet city.

Don't you need to found or annex your first four cities to get the monuments and aqueducts from Tradition? Neither tree seems better than the other for Venice.
Click to expand...

You could go Liberty for the free GP, but the Collective Rule SP would be worthless.

You don't need to have 4 cities to get the free buildings from Tradition. It's probably the best for Venice.

Honor may be legit for Venice if you don't want to play it OCC style. Grab up a close neighbor's cities to support your capital.
 
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