Capturing a Holy City

steveg700 · Jan 22, 2015

When you capture another civ's holy city, does it continue to generate that +30 internal pressure that makes it tough for other religions to maintain a foothold? Do the religious beliefs all stop working, even down to the pantheon belief?

I'm eyeballing a neighboring civ, but I like their pantheon belief, which I'm receiving via Piety. It would be nice to be able to keep it around.

Browd · Jan 22, 2015

Yes, on internal pressure, and the other beliefs continue to operate. But you don't get the benefit of founder and relevant enhancer beliefs just because you now control that holy city.

steveg700 · Jan 22, 2015

Thanks. So, pantheon and follower beliefs remain. Goodbye, Berlin, I hardly knew ye.

Sarin · Jan 22, 2015

steveg700 said:
Thanks. So, pantheon and follower beliefs remain. Goodbye, Berlin, I hardly knew ye.

Well, if set up properly, you can actually suppress the holy city's pressure by popping a great prophet, then using internal trade routes to keep the pressure of your own religion up.

ThorHammerz · Jan 22, 2015

Does the Inquisitor ability ''Remove Heresy'' work on captured holy cities? If so, expend one to permanently eradicate it.

Sarin · Jan 22, 2015

ThorHammerz said:
Does the Inquisitor ability ''Remove Heresy'' work on captured holy cities? If so, expend one to permanently eradicate it.

It won't eradicate it. Holy city will generate pressure even if there are no followers of that religion left. You just won't get rid of it. But combination of prophet (or inquisitor+missionary combo, prophet is after all just these two combined when it comes to spreading religion) and trade routes can keep your religion dominant in the holy city of different religion.

killmeplease · Jan 23, 2015

dont inquisitor completely removes a religion from the holy city?
(you have to conquer it)

Primacide · Jan 23, 2015

The religion no longer appears on the faith mouse-over after you use a prophet or inquisitor so in that sense, you have wiped it out. However, as Browd said, the +30 internal pressure never goes away. So, if you don't keep at least over thirty pressure on that city from surrounding cities, that holy city's religion will appear again, as the thirty internal pressure converts citizens. I find it helps if you can hit the holy city and several surrounding cities within a few turns of each other. It's rare now, but I still occasionally have a holy city flip back to its native religion. I just remember to check in on those cities every once in a great while.

beetle · Jan 23, 2015

Sarin said:
It won't eradicate it. Holy city will generate pressure even if there are no followers of that religion left.

That is not correct. After using an inquisitor, it not be a Holy City any more. You still have all the usual religious pressure from nearby cities to deal with though.

...or inquisitor+missionary combo, prophet is after all just these two combined when it comes to spreading religion

Normally, yes, but removing the Holy City buff is the one thing the inquisitor does that a GP does not.

killmeplease said:
dont inquisitor completely removes a religion from the holy city? (you have to conquer it)

Yes.

Primacide said:
The religion no longer appears on the faith mouse-over after you use a prophet or inquisitor so in that sense, you have wiped it out.

If a GP has eliminated all followers, it may look like you have eliminated the Holy City buff, but you have not. The faith mouse-over fails to display if there are zero followers.

However, as Browd said, the +30 internal pressure never goes away.

Browd did not say that. Also, without a Grand Temple, I dont think the pressure is that high.

I find it helps if you can hit the holy city and several surrounding cities within a few turns of each other. It's rare now, but I still occasionally have a holy city flip back to its native religion. I just remember to check in on those cities every once in a great while.

You won't have this ever happen if you use an inquisitor instead of a GP burn on the holy city. GP burn on surrounding cities is smart!

beetle · Jan 23, 2015

Sarin said:
Well, if set up properly, you can actually suppress the holy city's pressure by popping a great prophet, then using internal trade routes to keep the pressure of your own religion up.

I understand OP to be interested in keeping Berlin as a Holy City so he can spread its pantheon belief benefit to several of his founded cities. If Berlin loses its religion altogether, OP will not have an easy way to generate missionaries of that faith, and trade routes from Berlin to his founded cities won’t spread the pantheon benefit.

steveg700 said:
Thanks. So, pantheon and follower beliefs remain. Goodbye, Berlin, I hardly knew ye.

Plus, if you don't have your own, you will be able to build Grand Temple in Berlin.

Browd said:
YBut you don't get the benefit of founder and relevant enhancer beliefs just because you now control that holy city.

Browd, what do you mean by relevant enhancer beliefs?

steveg700 · Jan 23, 2015

beetle said:
I understand OP to be interested in keeping Berlin as a Holy City so he can spread its pantheon belief benefit to several of his founded cities. If Berlin loses its religion altogether, OP will not have an easy way to generate missionaries of that faith, and trade routes from Berlin to his founded cities wont spread the pantheon benefit.

Indeed, you are correct. Berlin has Gods of the Open Sky. and there's enough pastures around to make it attractive. It also has Mosques, and I've generated enough pressure that I've toyed with the idea of flipping cities just long enough to get the mosque and then flipping them back. I'm going way wide this game, so every little smiley helps. And I've only finished Liberty and Piety, so not much else to spend my faith on.

beetle · Jan 23, 2015

^Mosques are great and I have had success temporarily flipping my own cities. I have also overdone it, and had trouble getting my religion back. So here are some tips and tricks!

You can faith buy GP in Berlin, but they will be of your religion, prolly not what you want or expect! If you happened to capture a GP from Germany, the logistics get much, much easier.
You will be tempted to try this using only missionaries. My experience is that Inquisitors from Berlin are the most faith-cost effective way to do this. Before using, have faith enough saved to immediately buy the Mosque. You will also need a missionary from Berlin if Germany's faith is not present at all in your target city.
If you don't need the pantheon belief, follow the Mosque buy immediatly with a GP burn from your own religion (you need the GP ahead of time, of course).
If you want the pantheon belief, then you have to use your own missionary bulb(s) and wait on passive pressure from nearby cities following your home religion. This will take a while on larger cities.
The temptation is get those mosques in expos ASAP, and maybe even your cap. My experience is that you will be better off converting one city at a time, and waiting for them to bounce back before converting the next city. Do your cap last, and then if and only if you have a captured GP.
If you just want the pantheon belief, and can live without the mosque, logistics are easy.

Also, this means annexing Berlin instead of leaving it as a puppet, but since you are going wide, you are prolly okay with that. Just running trade routes from Berlin (as a puppet) takes much too long, except on small cities, so you will need to be able to faith-purchase in Berlin (or any city already following the German religion).

LoneRebel · Jan 26, 2015

Sarin said:
It won't eradicate it. Holy city will generate pressure even if there are no followers of that religion left. You just won't get rid of it. But combination of prophet (or inquisitor+missionary combo, prophet is after all just these two combined when it comes to spreading religion) and trade routes can keep your religion dominant in the holy city of different religion.

Primacide said:
The religion no longer appears on the faith mouse-over after you use a prophet or inquisitor so in that sense, you have wiped it out. However, as Browd said, the +30 internal pressure never goes away. So, if you don't keep at least over thirty pressure on that city from surrounding cities, that holy city's religion will appear again, as the thirty internal pressure converts citizens. I find it helps if you can hit the holy city and several surrounding cities within a few turns of each other. It's rare now, but I still occasionally have a holy city flip back to its native religion. I just remember to check in on those cities every once in a great while.

I don't think this is correct. Inquisitors alone completely remove all traces of that religion, including the holy city status. Fitting, as inquisitors can only be used on cities that you own. Great Prophets will not remove holy city status, whether the holy city was conquered by you or is still part of another civ. No need to combo GPs and Inquisitors together.

Browd · Jan 26, 2015

LoneRebel is correct and I think Primacide may have misunderstood what I said. An inquisitor will completely remove the Holy City character and it will never be a Holy City again (i.e., can't build the Grand Temple, can't build Borobudur, no internal Holy City pressure). The old religion may return to that city, but only because of pressure from other nearby cities that still follow the old religion and/or the old religion's Great Prophet/Missionary spread missions. If the old religion does return, the city will still never be a Holy City again.

compwiz1202 · Jan 27, 2015

Yes I definitely tested it before and it does remove the holy city status. I even gifted the city back to the owner, and it still wasn't a holy city

MPH4200 · Feb 1, 2015

@compwiz1202 what a jerk LOL

Capturing a Holy City

steveg700

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Browd

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steveg700

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Sarin

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ThorHammerz

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Sarin

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killmeplease

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Primacide

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beetle

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beetle

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steveg700

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beetle

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LoneRebel

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Browd

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compwiz1202

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MPH4200

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