Hannibal/Quatronia Diplomacy

you dont get traderouts over ocean tiles, if they are not in your culture

if they dont respond, let them be for the time beeing, once we have sailed out and met other nations, they "might" get very eager to come back to the negociacion table... ...concerning our next GP (the one after the GI)... ...we might need to bulb theo for trading it around, if the other teams are also biased against us, but doing so should bring us back into business

Does somebody know anyone from Quatronia on IM? Can somebody reach out to them?

We really need to communicate with them... not sure why they aren't talking to us unless they feel we are asking too much in trades. We've responded positively to their messages, but we can't patch up whatever needs to be patched up unless we get some communication going on.

I really don't think it's a case of US having to patch up anything.

It's them...

I've sent PVMs, and still they play the deaf-ear. They are 100% doing this intentionally.

Probably, and I think there's a good chance they are poisoning the mind of Team AMAZON about us. I'm going to send another message to AMAZON, basically to organize a small tech trade and try to smooth things over... I also want to find out what Quatronia has said to them.

Outwardly, however, we still need to try to keep things as friendly as possible to buy ourselves more time.

The Mike said:

Probably, and I think there's a good chance they are poisoning the mind of Team AMAZON about us. I'm going to send another message to AMAZON, basically to organize a small tech trade and try to smooth things over... I also want to find out what Quatronia has said to them.

Outwardly, however, we still need to try to keep things as friendly as possible to buy ourselves more time.

Click to expand...

anything is better then doing nothing. without allies, you dont stand a chance in a diplo game.

What you going to offer Amazon?

I have Earthlings IM, but he is never online. Niklas has Provos, perhaps he'll have a word. Niklas?

Planning on sending this:

Greetings Team Quatronia,

We would like to do a small tech trade with you, if you are willing.

Would you be willing to give us Animal Husbandry in exchange for Monotheism?

Feel free to offer the trade in game if you feel this is fair.

Thanks!

TheMike
Team Mavericks Diplomat

Hmmm, they'd getting a very nice beaker exchange. Try to get more for it if you can.

AH & Writing is probably asking for too much but.. see if we can get that deal first.

obsolete said:

Hmmm, they'd getting a very nice beaker exchange. Try to get more for it if you can.

AH & Writing is probably asking for too much but.. see if we can get that deal first.

Click to expand...

At this point, I just want to get any return on Monotheism. It's out there already, so they can get it elsewhere if not from us.

Yes, it gives them a nice beaker exchange, but it also gives us information: Are they serious about trading with us? Right now it seems like a no, but this would give us something concrete.

At least get Hunting with AH. We MAY have a need for a spear here or there, and who knows what else with Deer & Fants.

Since Cyrus just gained Priest, feel free to trade that for Mono to Carthage if you can... I THINK it's a decent trade. Would be silly for them not to want to build a temple since they are emphasizing growth.

trade seems fine for me.

we need to offer them something good, so AH for mono seems exactly right to me

Sent the Mono for AH offer.

Forget it. Hannibal logs in this turn, and his score shot wayyy up. I look, he already got Mono from Cyrus, etc.

Seems they are trying to keep us weak and down...

obsolete said:

Forget it. Hannibal logs in this turn, and his score shot wayyy up. I look, he already got Mono from Cyrus, etc.

Seems they are trying to keep us weak and down...

Click to expand...

Yup. I think it's pretty clear at this point. We must find other allies and be prepared for war. I don't think we did anything diplomatically that would have provoked this. We were aggressive with our offers, but I would have expected a counter-offer or an outright refusal, not a cold shoulder and collaboration against us.

They must know what we are up to with the Oracle->MC->GE->Pyramids gambit, and are threatened by it.

Unfortunately, TMIT knows me too well, and from other immortal/deity threads on the strat area on the forum, he probably remembers I still go for that line often here.

HOWEVER, I was actually going to avoid doing so this game, but SNAATY was the one who decided to go for it. But it doesn't matter, they probably know one way or another. Maybe...

I will tell you one thing. Saying BS is one thing, but what really gets me pissed is when they can't even give a lie. It seems the BOTH of them somehow think that later on they can play the old "Ohhh we didn't get your messages" card...

How about this ..... tell Cyrus that Carthage wants Metal Casting for Writing. And ask if they can give a better deal.

Ahaha! Maybe that will fuel some tension between then.

I just checked the in-box:

Dear TheMike:

While we would like to thank you for finally offering a reasonable tech trade, we have already unlocked the secrets of Monotheism via a less expensive method.
Unfortunately, there is nothing else that you can offer us that we are not getting soon. Apologies that tech trades aren't working out.

Ambassador Bowsling,
Quatronia

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What a load of bullsh!t. And I also wonder... are they serious they are getting Metal Casting soon from someone else?

obsolete said:

I just checked the in-box:



What a load of bullsh!t. And I also wonder... are they serious they are getting Metal Casting soon from someone else?

Click to expand...

It's important not to get pissed off or emotional. They are at least communicating now. I'll send them a message shortly to try to patch things up a bit.

Hello Ambassador Bowsling,

It is good to hear from the Quatronian people again.

If you have concerns about the way a tech trade proposal is structured, then please let us know. It was me, personally, that structured those offers. I am aware that it was not equal, beaker-for-beaker. However, I don't believe that determining trade value always that simple. I like to think in terms of impact and how much immediate benefit there is in a trade. There is value that is difficult to quantify by getting techs with a big benefit several turns early, such as Monotheism. It was my opinion that there is tremendous value for you to adopt Organized Religion ASAP to leverage your state religion to its fullest possible advantage. We have found the civic to be crucial in our own development so far, so the assumption was that the the hammer bonus you would be getting would absolutely justify extra beaker cost. This is arguably a much greater advantage than the ability to build Scouts, Monasteries, or Pastures (we have no livestock).

It's clear, however, that you did not agree. We have no issue with that, since the goal of any deal is to find something that works for both sides. In cases where you don't find the trade appealing, it is important that you let us know what you don't like about the deal or offer us something you would find more fitting. It is also important that this happens going forward so that our alliance may grow stronger. Our open borders and non-aggression pact are proof that we can execute deals that are mutually beneficial.

For our friendship to continue successfully, we don't necessarily have to agree on everything, but we certainly must communicate.

On that note, would you be interested in offering us a trade of 400-450 beakers worth of tech for Metal Casting?

Let us know.

Thank you,
TheMike
Mavericks Diplomat

Alright, at least as long as we can get them to talk... I'm happy to play along as the IDIOT as well.

I have a strong suspicion that they put Cyrus up to hammering us with full spy points as well to SHARE our intentions amoung them.

Made some edits, this is going out tonight.