Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
The war was over for the Germans when Operation Citadel failed (that's Kursk for those that don't know).
Mein Gott! A WW2 German FPS?
- Thread starter Captain2
- Start date
The war was over for the Germans when Operation Citadel failed (that's Kursk for those that don't know).
nonconformist
Miserable
Red Orchestra isn't an FPS, it's a simulation.
I imagine most players here wouldn't have the patience for it, unless you enjoy having to rest your bolt action rifle (and yes, 9 times out of 10, you will be playing with a bolt action rifle, not SMGs, and definitely not ultra-mega-mgs) on a wall, have to do iron sights (no crosshairs!), and wait unti your target is stationary for a while, compensate vertically for distance, and fire, having to remember to click a second time to cycle the bolt.
You'll get 5 kills in a game, maybe 10 if you're really good, but it makes it all worthwhile!
Other perks are:
-firing anything full auto will lead to you firing at the ceiling, while some pesky Russky batters your head in with the butt of his rifle
-no ammo counters; you have to count expended rounds yourself
-you have to change your MG42's barrel if you fire it for too prolonged a period, otherwise it melts
-when using a tank, you have to judge the distance of the enemy tank, and input the distance into the sight compensator, to get a hit (and different tanks, especially German and Russian ones have different sighting mechanisms!)
-teams are segregated into roles, where 90% of the people emnd up as riflemen, carrying a basic bolt action rifle, a bayonet, and a grenade.
I imagine most players here wouldn't have the patience for it, unless you enjoy having to rest your bolt action rifle (and yes, 9 times out of 10, you will be playing with a bolt action rifle, not SMGs, and definitely not ultra-mega-mgs) on a wall, have to do iron sights (no crosshairs!), and wait unti your target is stationary for a while, compensate vertically for distance, and fire, having to remember to click a second time to cycle the bolt.
You'll get 5 kills in a game, maybe 10 if you're really good, but it makes it all worthwhile!
Other perks are:
-firing anything full auto will lead to you firing at the ceiling, while some pesky Russky batters your head in with the butt of his rifle
-no ammo counters; you have to count expended rounds yourself
-you have to change your MG42's barrel if you fire it for too prolonged a period, otherwise it melts
-when using a tank, you have to judge the distance of the enemy tank, and input the distance into the sight compensator, to get a hit (and different tanks, especially German and Russian ones have different sighting mechanisms!)
-teams are segregated into roles, where 90% of the people emnd up as riflemen, carrying a basic bolt action rifle, a bayonet, and a grenade.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
I think I'm in love... 
nonconformist
Miserable
Yeah, it's challenging, and really fun, but so many people can't deal with the OMG WHY AM I NOT GETTING 200 KILLS I ROCKED IN COUNTERSTRIKE, SCREW DIS
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
I've never had to compensate vertical distance with my bolt rifle... by that distance it's usually almost impossible to tell if the guy is friend or foe or even really bother shooting him yet.
Except almost nobody knows how the hell to do that. I certainly don't, shell drop isn't too big you can usually figure it out.
But other than that, awesome game ^_^
Except almost nobody knows how the hell to do that. I certainly don't, shell drop isn't too big you can usually figure it out.
But other than that, awesome game ^_^
nonconformist
Miserable
I depends on the level; if it's wide open, you will need to compensate at ranges of over about 400m, and you can guess who is enemy and who isnt, because the enemy has their rifle pointing towards you
But it's generallysafe to aim at the centre of the forehead; even the bullet drop will normally get a throat or chest shot.
Aiming at centre mass is only really good for close range (~100m) engagements.
I dunno, I once played one game where I had a T-34, and came up on hill, and saw another hill, faily far away, and there were 3 kraut tanks, two mark IVs, and god forbid, and Panther! I managed to calibrate the gun to 1.2km and took a chance; I fired at the rearmost tank, so that the others wouldn't notice. Got a direct hit on the engine block I was aiming at exactly 1.2km away!
I then proceeded to blast the second tank, and then blasted the Panther twice in quick succession, before they knew what was happening. I was so chuffed
General rule of thumb though; set your sight calibration at 400 metres; it's the ebst compromise. Anything close enough will get hit, just you have to aim lower than you would normally, and you're unlikely to encounter anything over 700m, which the calibration can still hit decently (this doesn't include the Russian steppe maps where you can get 3kms of open field)
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
I do not have the slightest clue as to how far 400m is in the game, and if you do have a distance that big, usually there is fog, snow, or simply you are not usually shooting that far.
nonconformist
Miserable
Well, you have to kinda guess and use certain landmarks...I've regularly gone into tank battles over 1km, and rifle battles over 300m, but they occur in msotly Russian steppe levels, during the summer (Benzerima is one I think)
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
I can't even tell exactly how far 30 feet is in real life, little alone a video game.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONG4...DAA07958&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30
A short almost 10 minute walkthrough of some of the new (and much desired) features that make the game not only more realistic, but deploying mounted light machine guns is much easier while being realistic woo!
A short almost 10 minute walkthrough of some of the new (and much desired) features that make the game not only more realistic, but deploying mounted light machine guns is much easier while being realistic woo!
Well I certainly liked and played the current RO to death. A very good game, in terms of infantry warfare simulation, I like the realism.
With tanks there is however a certain lack of realism: tanks are unable to crush light obstacles (you can of course still run over infantry), tank gun penetration are horribly wrong, you basically cannot kill an enemy tank with one shot 90% of the time, tank gun penetration is most of the time not dependent on range which is a big factor in real life.
So in real life a short ranged shot with a decent tank gun will penetrate and thus disable/ destroy almost any tank regardless of whether its a frontal/flanking shot, not in RO however. Getting the first shot in tank combat matters little since the first shot cannot most of the time kill the enemy immediately or disable the tank gun.
Flanking shots from a direct 90 degree angle sometimes kill with one shot, sometimes even close up shots from the rear simply bounce off, all in all shots have a nasty tendency to bounce off, maybe too much really! (especially when you're shooting at a T-34 with a panzer4H for example, even a 90 degree shot to the side of the tank has a humongous chance of bouncing off)
However there's a mod called armored beasts mod, which is run by some servers, and has more realistic tank penetration.
As far as fun and good maps goes, I prefer maps that have infantry fighting vehicles, combined arms battles are awesome in my opinion. And a couple tanks on both sides for support. Not pure tank maps. Pure infantry maps are also ok most of the time, but some maps are horribly imbalanced for larger servers most of the time favouring defensive side massively, thus stagnating the gameplay to WW1 style slaughter with charging against machine guns artillery fire and dying (basovka map with 50 players :/)
With tanks there is however a certain lack of realism: tanks are unable to crush light obstacles (you can of course still run over infantry), tank gun penetration are horribly wrong, you basically cannot kill an enemy tank with one shot 90% of the time, tank gun penetration is most of the time not dependent on range which is a big factor in real life.
So in real life a short ranged shot with a decent tank gun will penetrate and thus disable/ destroy almost any tank regardless of whether its a frontal/flanking shot, not in RO however. Getting the first shot in tank combat matters little since the first shot cannot most of the time kill the enemy immediately or disable the tank gun.
Flanking shots from a direct 90 degree angle sometimes kill with one shot, sometimes even close up shots from the rear simply bounce off, all in all shots have a nasty tendency to bounce off, maybe too much really! (especially when you're shooting at a T-34 with a panzer4H for example, even a 90 degree shot to the side of the tank has a humongous chance of bouncing off)
However there's a mod called armored beasts mod, which is run by some servers, and has more realistic tank penetration.
As far as fun and good maps goes, I prefer maps that have infantry fighting vehicles, combined arms battles are awesome in my opinion. And a couple tanks on both sides for support. Not pure tank maps. Pure infantry maps are also ok most of the time, but some maps are horribly imbalanced for larger servers most of the time favouring defensive side massively, thus stagnating the gameplay to WW1 style slaughter with charging against machine guns artillery fire and dying (basovka map with 50 players :/)
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
...So in other words, no AWP lamers sniping everybody from halfway accross the map (and killing you with a LEG SHOT), no people jumping around with SMGs like a bunch of ******ed grasshoppers, yet STILL managing to get headshots on everyone, etc....
This might be good (except that it's a bunch of pro-Nazi propaganda, and I, being part Jewish, will have nothing to do with it!)
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
How is it pro-nazi propaganda? I don't recall ANYTHING like that in Red Orchestra, which is a battle between the German Army of WW2 and the Red Army of WW2. The Swastika is not ingame and is not allowed on the forums either.
Unless you mean it doesn't demonise every german whether or not they were true nazis. The holocaust and WW2 armies do not have to go hand in hand and can be seperated.
EDIT: And yeah destructible terrain isn't in the game sadly, I believe they are using the Unreal 3 engine for Heroes (The first game uses UR 2.5 engine iirc) though.
Unless you mean it doesn't demonise every german whether or not they were true nazis. The holocaust and WW2 armies do not have to go hand in hand and can be seperated.
EDIT: And yeah destructible terrain isn't in the game sadly, I believe they are using the Unreal 3 engine for Heroes (The first game uses UR 2.5 engine iirc) though.
Captain2
ಠ_ృ
Unless the game itself is perhaps Nazi propaganda?
Maybe theres a level where you defend a school from a horde of ravenous untermench
Maybe theres a level where you defend a school from a horde of ravenous untermench
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Well they could be mutants! Or zombies or something, I consider them to be somewhat untermench. Unless it's X-Men like mutants, in which case the mutation is beneficial (more or less).
Red Orchestra is about gritty realistic (for a computer game) WW2 war on the Eastern Front. Nothing about the holocaust is mentioned or allowed. Like almost every other WW2 game.
Red Orchestra is about gritty realistic (for a computer game) WW2 war on the Eastern Front. Nothing about the holocaust is mentioned or allowed. Like almost every other WW2 game.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
If they were in the Wehrmacht, then they were true Nazis, unless they were in the EXTREME minority who refused to obey orders to kill all Jews they captured (General Rommel being about the only well-known example I can think of) or were part of the plot to kill Hitler...
The way I see it, if you get your ticket punched on the wrong train, you only have yourself to blame when you're justly demonized for your despicable actions... The fact that this game has a SP campaign from the Nazi perspective, without duly CONDEMNING them (the worst evil the world has seen since Ghengis Khan and Joseph Stalin) is, AFAIK, condoning them.... Especially considering that there are plenty of people around who want to say the Holocaust never happened (despite the fact that I PERSONALLY know at least ONE Holocaust survivor!)
Then again IMO, not near enough is said or done to condemn the actions of the Commies and Joe Stalin either...
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Most of the german soldiers were not the ones running the death camps. Also, every multiplayer WW2 game let's you play as the germans and doesn't have anything to condemn them in multiplayer.
The German soldiers were fighting for the more or less the same reasons as every other nations' soldiers:
Duty to your country
Defending your country (or it's interests)
Peer pressure (your friends signed up, why haven't you?)
Propaganda (which WW2 Germany in particular mastered, and all sides used a lot of propaganda and censorship)
Conscription
Most germans didn't go "Hey, let's sign up and bag us some jews today!". Yes the holocaust was awful and one of the worst atrocities in history (and I'll never forget the incredibly depressing exhibit I saw in the Imperial War Museum in London). I think you need to do some more research from multiple perspectives though, not everyone joining the army were true nazis in the jew-murdering sense.
I fail to see how a singleplayer campaign which does neither condemns every German for something they probably had nothing to do with (directly) nor promotes or even mentions the holocaust and has nothing to do with the holocaust is a good reason to boycott the game and promote prejudice thought*.
*(Which you are by implying that every german was a jew-hating-murderer).
The German soldiers were fighting for the more or less the same reasons as every other nations' soldiers:
Duty to your country
Defending your country (or it's interests)
Peer pressure (your friends signed up, why haven't you?)
Propaganda (which WW2 Germany in particular mastered, and all sides used a lot of propaganda and censorship)
Conscription
Most germans didn't go "Hey, let's sign up and bag us some jews today!". Yes the holocaust was awful and one of the worst atrocities in history (and I'll never forget the incredibly depressing exhibit I saw in the Imperial War Museum in London). I think you need to do some more research from multiple perspectives though, not everyone joining the army were true nazis in the jew-murdering sense.
I fail to see how a singleplayer campaign which does neither condemns every German for something they probably had nothing to do with (directly) nor promotes or even mentions the holocaust and has nothing to do with the holocaust is a good reason to boycott the game and promote prejudice thought*.
*(Which you are by implying that every german was a jew-hating-murderer).
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
No, I was only implying that those in the ARMY (and DON'T try to feed me that BS that they "didn't know what was going on" at the death camps... I'm sure they damn well did, at least the ones in the Eastern Theater, which is where most of the worst concentration camps were) were Jew-hating murderers...
One of my professors in college is second-generation German-American, and his father spent the entirety of WWII living as a girl.... Why? His parents KNEW that Hitler was evil and didn't want their son to be brainwashed by the Hitlers Jungen, and since girls were not required to join said brainwashing group, they disguised him as a girl...
There are other incidents... The only incidents in the military that I know of are General Erwin Rommel, who flat-out ignored Hitler's order to kill any Jews captured, and later took part in the plot to assassinate Hitler (which, sadly, failed)....
Granted, there were atrocities committed on both sides, what with German POWs being sent to the Gulag after the war, where some 90% perished (again, another reason why Stalin should be damned by history), or the American army unit that liberated the Dachau concentration camp and slaughtered over half the German prisoners after seeing the condition of the inmates at the camp (one could argue that they were merely serving out justice that would have been meted out against the Germans running that camp anyways, but one should let the LAW decide such things rather than hot-blooded vigilante justice).
Saying that the Nazi soldiers were not guilty of their nation's crimes would be like saying that the Japanese soldiers that raped, plundered and pillaged Nanjing were innocent of those deeds.
As for the propaganda bit... Ironically enough, Hitler learned the tricks of his trade from the US...
Still, I bet you dollars to doughnuts that this game will have the neo-nazis and KKK types crawling out of the woodwork, much like DoD, which is why I stopped playing that game. (I caught one friend of mine who liked to play DoD as the Germans singing that one song from "American History X" about "We're taking down the ZOG machine, Jew by Jew by Jew", at which point I confronted him about that and informed him of my Jewish heritage.... After that he never uttered any slurs against Jews in my presence again!)
Edit: I wonder what Oskar Gröning's opinion on this subject would be.... I have a feeling he would agree with me.
So I read a big book dating from the 50s, written from the point of view of a US journalist who had spent the 30s in Germany. He basically said that the German had some sort of genetics or tradition about them that made them more prone than other nations to be caught in this sort of situation.
Do you agree with him? Do you think that the German were the only people who could have done what has been committed in World War II?
Humanity as a whole is guilty of World War II because it was capable of it. Humanity as a whole was capable of becoming racist a-holes. From that point of view, playing World War II on the side of the bad guys is pretty much a moot point.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Well, in some of my more cynical moods, I'd say that Germany, thanks to the 30 Year's War, the failed Revolution of 1848 and the unification under the authoritarian Prussians in 1866 resulted in all the free-thinkers, libertarians and egalitarianists being killed or fleeing to the US or Switzerland, which is why those nations became the paragons of democracy that they are now and Germany devolved into an Authoritarian cesspit... But that wouldn't be entirely accurate.
As for nobody else being capable of doing such things, I already said that the Japanese and Russians committed equally heinous acts, but then again, they were both oppressive, totalitarian regimes, much like the Nazis.....
No DEMOCRACY has ever done anything on NEAR that scale... Even the much-touted internment of Japanese-Americans and the recent Gitmo fiasco pale in comparison, and as is to be expected in a constitutional democracy, the people have made sure that those responsible were punished for their crimes! (I personally hope that Obama subjects the CIA agents to the very same torture techniques they used on their prisoners at Gitmo.)
If you want to play as the Ultimate Evil, then go ahead, I refuse to have anything to do with it... Now games where you're KILLING the Nazi bastards, like the original Wolfenstein-3D, I'll play all day, but not ones where you play AS the Nazi bastards. I had Sudden Strike, but I refused to play any of the Nazi campaigns or as the Nazis in MP... I'd always play as the good ol' USA (not the Russian Commies either, who, IMO are just as bad as the Nazis), and I downright enjoyed pwning my friends who liked playing as the Germans (one of my friends said he was starting to have nightmares about the game, which is why we stopped playing it... Probably something to do with my evil artillery tactics for securing checkpoints.
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