ROTQM10: Raging Over the Quarreling Mountains

Copper looks a lot more promising, not only for better units but also since there's pigs around.

My proposal for dot map:

A - This connects us horses. There is NO way to get a food bonus out of it.

B - Only spot I find on a hill that will get us give us copper and pigs. Only trouble is both are second ring. However, this city will probably see most of the action early on - IMHO we need the hill.

C - Food positive and claims crabs. Those will be pillage proof as long as we control that lake.

D and E - the goal is a northern choke point. To survive the troop crunch of AW we need to start set a perimeter and have cities the AI shouldn't get to.

F - We get the rice now, and later one (post calendar) sugar is food positive. This city is a mid-level production city.

G - Cow for positive food now and bonus sugar later. With being an interior city and river this can be a cottage overload city. We need at least a few cities with heavy economy. Wealth doesn't get multiplied, while cottages can.

I lean toward "A" first. "B" requires a ton of roads to connect to Moscow. "A" will be able to cover a lot of the path to "B".

I am playing now, as I can play until the settler is ready. We don't need agreement until the next turn.

2975 BC
Pre-check already done and dot map suggest published.

2925 BC
(IT) Our scout on hill laughs at the lion.

2850 BC
Our northern scout pops a hut to get more experience. He already has Hill 2, so I would have preferred something a bit more useful.

2775 BC
(IT) Stupid lion killed our western scout.
The next tech is pottery. Granaries are always good, and we will need some cottages.

2750 BC
Our extreme north scout pops a warrior.

2700 BC
Huts are stuck in a loop, and we pop another warrior.


I revised the dot map to A2 (my original "A"), and A1 (two west). Two tiles west can farm some flood plains. I missed that on my initial look.

Scouting just made my mind up. "B" now has corn showing in ring 1.


Settler is ready, and archer is part of the way to "B".

Lee, I have a few questions:

- How many turns did you play?

- What happened Tech-wise?

- (might not just concern you) Why did we mine a grass hill instead of improving ivory? Ivory has the same F/H yield but gets +1C. And of course +1 .

- While I understand we're close to , I'd still prefer to improve tiles before connecting health resources. doesn't hurt much.


I agree with settling your "B" site. Definitely best around, plenty of food, easily defendable (hill) though I doubt we'll face proper attacks yet. We should interrupt pottery btw to tech myst right now so we can expand B's borders by building a monument. No monument, no culture, no bronze.

I am not sure how to settle apart from city 2. Since there are no new -resources (not counting calendar ones) and we'll have copper, there isn't much of a priority. Unfortounately, there is not much food around. A decent GP-site would be between rice and pigs, between moscov and portugal. I would probably expand towards that site.

Regarding tech, I suggest myst > pottery > writing for now.


at our arctic explorers Seriously, we might be better off just disbanding them or at least turn them around to unfog the remaining few tiles between portugal and us. Knowledge of the map up there is of no use to us.

I played under 15 turns - I picked up the game with settler in 15 not counting the forest from the mine.
Tech was to wrap up wheel and on to pottery.
The mine was under construction when I picked up the game, so previous person will have to answer why. I didn't see enough to justify moving him.
For sites, I want the further sites first - "B", "A west", "E" and "D". After that we can back fill "C", "G" and "F".

Why do you want to settle A,E,D? All of those will be junk forever except for D due to the pigs. But that city has 3 tiles less in BFC and blocks less accordingly. A has horses and 2 FPs so nearly no growth in a city just to deliver horses? We're not that desperate to get them, axes > chariots anyway, especially when fighting off barbs (as chariots don't get defense bonuses and can't get terrain promos). E has no resource at all and doesn't even have FPs so it will grow even less.

However I agree with settling furthest cities first - thus my proposition to settle a potential GPFarm (the only proper site by the look of the map), which is pretty close to joao.

I have a reservation about city B. It's easy enough to defend a hilltop city with a couple of archers, the problem comes with trying to defend the desert copper mine from pillaging (and of course the road network). Without copper its a pretty average city.

An alternative could be (for instance) that we establish a few cities overlapping the capital, the outer tiles will of course be pillaged mercilessly but the inner tiles (between cities and capital) should be pretty much spared if the barbs go for the city in preference.
If we tech towards construction>HbR then we can take the initiative with an elepult army and thus pretty much do without metal.

Another option is to consider that iron is generally more common that copper. Ideally we'd find hilltop iron and stick a city on top of it.

I have a reservation about city B. It's easy enough to defend a hilltop city with a couple of archers, the problem comes with trying to defend the desert copper mine from pillaging (and of course the road network). Without copper its a pretty average city.

Click to expand...

As copper and rode network are between our cities and not between us and them, I doubt we'll have much trouble keeping them unpillaged. Also, there is a nice little mountain range shielding off a few tiles. As to barbs, we'll need to devote around 2 units to route patrol I guess... Fogbusting is our friend here.

I don't like settling the first cities overlapping the capital. I prefer landgrab and backfilling.

Site B makes me awful nervous. how many units will we need to invest up there to keep the copper and the city safe?? also, how fast can they get up there??

i'm leaning a bit towards pigs suggestion that we forget the metal for the now, and get up some decent cities closer to home. it's an ugly site, imho, but i NE of A will net the horses in teh second ring, and get us some of those grass river tiles, too...

i know it's a safe site, but G really has some appeal to me as city 2. and then maybe whip out 2 more settlers as fast as possible for A (or B) and maybe mysty's GPFarm up north...but even that seems far as heck right now.

oh, and good turns all!!

"D" and "E" are to setup a parameter to allow us to have some rear cities that are safe.

"G" should be a great economy town provide it isn't getting pillaged to death.

Once we build "C" defending the road to "B" gets easier. Horse city "A1 / 2" also will help defend that route to copper.

1NE of A (as pholk says) has farmable resources to support growth and horses. I reckon this one and G are probably better now than B, too far away to protect properly from pillaging.

here's an updated dotmap, using Lee's original, w/lines drawn by a hamster:


i moved G, too, so taht we could avoid more "one tile away from water" cities, and to nab that last FP in the SE corner.

in a normal game, i'd say B is definitely the way to go, but w/the AW and raging barbs, i think it's a big risk.

personally, i'm for A for some sort of offensive units, and then G-blue to follow ASAP.

i also think the choice btwn D and E or a GPF in btwn them can be punted a few sets down. if there's not two civs above us, i think we cud safely combine the two. actually, the mroe i think about it, i think we should settle up there shortly after G for just the reasons lee suggested: to keep the place from getting pillaged to heck and back.

pholkhero
ozbenno
LKendter >> just played
rolo >> UP NOW
pigswill >> on deck
mystyfly

Got it, but don't expect it before wednesday.

Any consensus on what site to settle city #2 ?

Hardly ever played with raging barbs but I'd guess raging barbs on prince ain't going to be much different to normal barbs on emperor (more information would be useful). If that is the case then hilltop archers should help a lot and copper may not be too vulnerable. However we may need the spawnbusters out sooner rather than later.

That's kinda my point. When we do decent fogbusting we needn't be afraid of barbs too much. Especially with axes. I am still not convinced settling anywhere near the horses is better than the copper spot with plenty of food.

seems that oz and I are the only nancies about, so feel free to settle B for the copper. we won't be shy about saying "i told you so" if it doesn't work out

Storing up my told you so.

If we go for copper we need to get more workers and fog busters (maybe recall the icy warriors) to build and protect our road network.

So King of yourself, where you at???????

r_rolo1 said:

got it, but don't expect it before wednesday.

Any consensus on what site to settle city #2 ?

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