Nerfed, buffed, and meh (civilizations)

seasnake

seasnake

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I didn't see a thread on this already so I thought I'd start one. what civs from vanilla, gods and kings, and dlc were indirectly nerfed or buffed by the new mechanics.

buffed:
England: fast mobile navies are really important to secure sea trade routes. extra spy can be more effectively used as a diplomat unit, which is a nice edge to getting resolutions passed.

Polynesia: Moai are really big sources of culture and tourism with hotels.

America: visibility bonus helps monitor caravans against attack with fewer units, less early gold and culture has made cheap tile buying much more useful.

Byzantium: piety moved to.ancient era gives Theodora a chance to get a religion fast.

Maya: take piety to enjoy half priced pyramids in the ancient era.

nerfed:
Netherlands: need a new trait now. east India company was all about early lump sums while keeping some of the happiness, now that doesnt happen.

Celts: piety move makes it so easy to get shrines and temples, really negates the advantages of free faith.
 
I guess Sweden would be slightly buffed due to the increased importance of DOFs and great people?
 
America, Japan and Germany are just completely dead now. There is NO reason to play them when there are civs that do what they do only much much better.
Celts are also useless. Always have been and always will be (Unless you think choosing a pantheon first is very important, which it isn't.). But nothing new there.
 
Even though it was exploitative to trade away your luxuries for 240 gold (and sometimes declare war soon after) it did give the Dutch UA more significance. With the new changes in Brave New World I've lost some interest in playing as the Dutch even though they were my favorite civ in G&K. Maybe Assyria will be my new favorite...
 
From what I can tell, Inca is slightly buffed, since cheap/free roads make longer land routes better. Also Russia, since Iron unlocks a whole era earlier. A lot of civs seem to have picked up minor buffs like that.
 
People...Lump sum gold is not impossible to accomplish. Work on your diplomacy and get some DoF, then profit.

They didnt remove lump sum gold - they just made it more valuable to foster good relations with civs, and removed the 'trade-everything-for-gold-then-declare-war exploit"

Spread your caravans to other civs, don't expand to aggressive, join your friends wars, help them when they ask, open borders and embassies etc. AND BUILD AN ARMY so they don't backstab you when you're weak. I've been getting DoF in every game i start from at least 1 of the 3-4 civs on my continent.

*EDIT*
Also i realize that most people are used to just getting lump sum - but getting GPT isn't that horrible. I've been trading for GPT ever since vanilla and while getting 240g instantly is good in a pinch, there is strategic value to removing the AI's ability to generate gold.
 
Mongolia: With the importance of City-States becoming more significant, I find that the 30% bonus to them is much less good. Why destroy your early trade partners? Why make others eternally angry at you? That puts your trade routes in jeopardy if they declare war unless you trade internally or with CS, but you need that money.

Keshiks and Khans are still as awesome as ever.
 
mabalogna said:
People...Lump sum gold is not impossible to accomplish. Work on your diplomacy and get some DoF, then profit.

They didnt remove lump sum gold - they just made it more valuable to foster good relations with civs, and removed the 'trade-everything-for-gold-then-declare-war exploit"

Spread your caravans to other civs, don't expand to aggressive, join your friends wars, help them when they ask, open borders and embassies etc. AND BUILD AN ARMY so they don't backstab you when you're weak. I've been getting DoF in every game i start from at least 1 of the 3-4 civs on my continent.

*EDIT*
Also i realize that most people are used to just getting lump sum - but getting GPT isn't that horrible. I've been trading for GPT ever since vanilla and while getting 240g instantly is good in a pinch, there is strategic value to removing the AI's ability to generate gold.
Click to expand...

I always add extra AI's since I prefer a smaller empire, however this quickly causes the AI to covet my land instead of becoming friends with me. In my first game I could only get a DoF with Venice and he hardly has more than 100 gold to give. He also won't give me 240 gold in a combination of GPT and gold, but whatever..:p
 
Japan got a slight buff, the zero is more useful now that the AI are learning what bombers are. Shaka attacked late game so when I responded with an artillery push,, his Great War bombers tore me to shreds, I had to beeline ballistics just to my army had cover, because the AI also recognizes what a pointless Kamikaze attack looks like and they will try and avoid them now, to the interception bonus on the zero got lots better
 
GreenThings said:
Mongolia: With the importance of City-States becoming more significant, I find that the 30% bonus to them is much less good. Why destroy your early trade partners? Why make others eternally angry at you? That puts your trade routes in jeopardy if they declare war unless you trade internally or with CS, but you need that money.

Keshiks and Khans are still as awesome as ever.
Click to expand...

Lets face it, Mongolia is a warmonger. By taking out CS they deny the AI or other Humans from gaining benefits from those CS. If Mongolia is meant to be hell bent on conquest, than all of its gold will be tied up into army maintenance or working hammer tiles.

Civ's like Austria, Mongolia, The Huns and now Venice are the ones who cause grief to those who spend time in Patronage and building good relations with CS for a diplo victory. Since the World Congress isn't the only way to win, it's not much of a problem if you gobble up the CS
 
Securion said:
America, Japan and Germany are just completely dead now. There is NO reason to play them when there are civs that do what they do only much much better.
Click to expand...

Much greater diversity in barbarian units may help Germany quite a bit - they'll now play more like the Manchu in the Korea scenario.

America is fine - it's mostly neutral in respect of BNW changes, and the comparisons with the Shoshone are a poor analogy; as someone noted it's similar to equating Songhai (who have a minor feature of their UA inferior to Denmark's main UA) with Denmark (for whom the disembarkation boost is much stronger because they get no other bonuses).

Celts are also useless. Always have been and always will be (Unless you think choosing a pantheon first is very important, which it isn't.). But nothing new there.
Click to expand...

The Celts can use their ability to gain fast religion without using Piety, allowing them potentially more flexibility. I doubt this will be particularly desirable - why would a religious player want to forgo a Reformation Belief? - but it's a consideration. Plus, anything that gives extra faith works well with Reformation beliefs that provide new ways of spending that faith.
 
Can anyone confirm that taking out Venice is game over for the civ?
 
Game over as in Venice loses? No, when I took Venice from them their capital shifted to Colombo. Is it game over in the fact that they're screwed? Yes, yes it is.
 
The Inca ability now might as well read:
"Great Andean road-
FREE MONEY!
Also some BS about hill movement
But more importantly FREE MONEY!
 
I'm European, so still have to guess :(, but I would have thought the policy that made culture buildings half the cost (or whatever, hammer spill over guys), should benefit a Celtic ICS immensely, as the +3 happy UB is an opera house? Anyone tried this yet?
 
GreenThings said:
Game over as in Venice loses? No, when I took Venice from them their capital shifted to Colombo. Is it game over in the fact that they're screwed? Yes, yes it is.
Click to expand...

Does their new capital function as a full city or is it still a puppet?
 
mabalogna said:
People...Lump sum gold is not impossible to accomplish. Work on your diplomacy and get some DoF, then profit.
Click to expand...
You are underestimating the importance of the Dutch UA.

The idea of the ability is to promote trading for a slight disadvantage (less happiness) but for a great advantage (lump of gold that you can spend on anything). Casual trading now means far less profit and forces the Dutch into a pacifist mode denying them early conquest and motivating them to prevent to step on others their toes. Not helpful if you require expansion for a lot of luxuries to use the ability as much as possible. Also, if your neighbours don't fancy a friendship you're just screwed and cannot gain the max out of the UA's advantage. The AI already couldn't use the ability in G&K and I'm pretty sure this will most definitely be the case now in BNW. Out of all civs it is a bloody shame that the Dutch, pretty much THE trading nation in the world, gains a trading disadvantage in an expansion focused on trading.
 
I think I've said it on another thread but Korea get's a slight nerf since they'll have trouble discovering civs with the turtle ship.
 
Bakspatel said:
You are underestimating the importance of the Dutch UA.

The idea of the ability is to promote trading for a slight disadvantage (less happiness) but for a great advantage (lump of gold that you can spend on anything). Casual trading now means far less profit and forces the Dutch into a pacifist mode denying them early conquest and motivating them to prevent to step on others their toes. Not helpful if you require expansion for a lot of luxuries to use the ability as much as possible. Also, if your neighbours don't fancy a friendship you're just screwed and cannot gain the max out of the UA's advantage. The AI already couldn't use the ability in G&K and I'm pretty sure this will most definitely be the case now in BNW. Out of all civs it is a bloody shame that the Dutch, pretty much THE trading nation in the world, gains a trading disadvantage in an expansion focused on trading.
Click to expand...

You are right that that WAS the idea of the Dutch in G&K. To say that it is a disadvantage, though, is just bullcrap, though. You can still trade a lux with a friendly AI for 6gpt, which is basically a trade route in the early game. You can also trade your last resource for a new resource, giving you +2 effective happiness. Polders are also still in the top 3 UI's, too, IMO.
 
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