Livestream #3: "Affinities: Which Direction?" - Aug 28th

Naokaukodem said:

I don't know what is metagaming or what it should be, but what you describe sounds more like role playing to me.

Click to expand...

Affinities are reactions to a hostile alien environment. You don't choose how you are going to react before you get there because there is no analog in human experience.

In true role-playing you are a weary, scared astronaut, placed in a situation no other human has ever been in. there is nothing else you should determine about your actions ahead of time.

Eagle Pursuit said:

Affinities are reactions to a hostile alien environment. You don't choose how you are going to react before you get there because there is no analog in human experience.

In true role-playing you are a weary, scared astronaut, placed in a situation no other human has ever been in. there is nothing else you should determine about your actions ahead of time.

Click to expand...

However, the existence of certain resources would not determine whether you want to adapt to the planet or force it to adapt to you. Or whether you think technology will render the situation moot.

That is a mindset that can be present in the colonists from the beginning regardless of the presence/absence of weird alien resources.

It could also be a mindset that will develop for reasons Other than alien resources...
X tech looks good to me, it comes with an Affinity.

The reveal of the Harmony level one belief, aliens return to neutral stance twice as quickly, is making me want to know more about the global and civ specific parts of alien aggression. It has been stated that human aggression against the aliens will affect their attitude to everyone. Are there separate global and civ counters with the civ one being raise at a higher rate or is it one big counter.

Either way I did think of a strategy as harmony where I purposely rile up the aliens, while clearing the territory I want to settle. Since I will have cleared most of the immediate threats to me and will have to deal with the alien aggression for half as long, this should allow me to sue the aliens as proxies. Until I know just how the alien aggression mechanic works though I am unsure of this.

As for choosing an affinity in game I don't mind it. One of the main problems with Civ V was the utter dominance of Tradition and Rationalism. By forcing so many policy picks they tended to make games far more uniform. In contrast, one of my favorite parts of religion in Civ 5 was the pantheon beliefs. For the later beliefs I always wanted Tithe, pagodas and religious texts but the pantheon varied each game and felt far more organic. If the affinities affect what virtues you want to go for being forced to adapt each game could mean I won't know 90% of my virtue picks before I begin which was every game in G&K and most in BNW.

Eagle Pursuit said:

Affinities are reactions to a hostile alien environment. You don't choose how you are going to react before you get there because there is no analog in human experience.

Click to expand...

They're also ideologies. You don't necessarily become a warmonger just because it's convenient on the map you're playing, if you don't care for or are not in the mood for that style of play. I'm not going to start putting my babies in a meat grinder just because there happens to be a lot of Firaxite near my colony.

The idea that you're somehow hopelessly handicapping yourself if you already have a strategy in mind before you start the game.... seems to me to imply that this game is much harder than it really is.

AriochIV said:

They're also ideologies. You don't necessarily become a warmonger just because it's convenient on the map you're playing, if you don't care for or are not in the mood for that style of play.

The idea that you're somehow hopelessly handicapping yourself if you already have a strategy in mind before you start the game.... seems to me to imply that this game is much harder than it really is.

Click to expand...

They didn't say hopelessly handicapping.
But it is a handicap.
Just like choosing to go up a particular Virtue tree/Tech direction before you start is a handicap.

However, chances are you Can decide to go a particular Affinity/Tech direction/Virtue path is quite possible, the map will just have certain challenges that need to be overcome for that to be successful.
Path of least resistance can be easier, but its probably not the only way.

Gali said:

The reveal of the Harmony level one belief, aliens return to neutral stance twice as quickly, is making me want to know more about the global and civ specific parts of alien aggression. It has been stated that human aggression against the aliens will affect their attitude to everyone. Are there separate global and civ counters with the civ one being raise at a higher rate or is it one big counter.

Click to expand...

I think this was mentioned in the livestream, but an audio blip covered it up.

AriochIV said:

They're also ideologies. You don't necessarily become a warmonger just because it's convenient on the map you're playing, if you don't care for or are not in the mood for that style of play. I'm not going to start putting my babies in a meat grinder just because there happens to be a lot of Firaxite near my colony.

The idea that you're somehow hopelessly handicapping yourself if you already have a strategy in mind before you start the game.... seems to me to imply that this game is much harder than it really is.

Click to expand...

That's not my argument. I'm just saying that deciding how to play before you play isn't role-playing, or at least not in the absolute sense. i doubt that a player would be significantly challenged if they decided to go Purity and then discovered no Floatstone in the vicinity. It would be comparable to not having iron near your start in Civ V. It's just an obstacle that makes the game interesting.

GenEngineer said:

I think this was mentioned in the livestream, but an audio blip covered it up.

Click to expand...

Well the 2x decay suggests there are separate counters... but an aggressive action probably raises all counters equally.

And there are probably other things you can do that will improve/worsen your individual counter.

Eagle Pursuit said:

That's not my argument. I'm just saying that deciding how to play before you play isn't role-playing, or at least not in the absolute sense. i doubt that a player would be significantly challenged if they decided to go Purity and then discovered no Floatstone in the vicinity. It would be comparable to not having iron near your start in Civ V. It's just an obstacle that makes the game interesting.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Iron is more comparable to geothermal or petroleum here; the affinity resources are treated like strategic but seem to have far more weight. If a bunch of buildings, wonders, and units all require the resource, then you will be hamstrung in that you can't build up the same economy and military if you lack it, which would likewise make it harder to take it from your neighbors.

In short, I'd be hesitant to immediately compare the big 3 resources to the more common ones in Civ5. They have much larger effects, to the point that getting 4 of them is considered by the developers to be worthy of being a bonus for reaching a certain level by itself.

I'd guess the affinity resources will be guaranteed on some level. For such a core mechanic, I'd be surprised if it were like Civ 5 where you could spawn an entire continent without a single coal resource.

I also wonder if there will be things like Civ 5's recycling center, giving you other ways to get certain resources. Like I said, the affinities seem to be pretty core to the game itself (three victories tied to them alone).

That does raise another question though: How viable is it to not develop any affinity? If it is a situation where a non-affinity faction just cannot compete, then these resources must be common enough where RNG cannot decide you lose a game automatically by not spawning near any.

BEFanatic said:

I'd guess the affinity resources will be guaranteed on some level. For such a core mechanic, I'd be surprised if it were like Civ 5 where you could spawn an entire continent without a single coal resource.

I also wonder if there will be things like Civ 5's recycling center, giving you other ways to get certain resources. Like I said, the affinities seem to be pretty core to the game itself (three victories tied to them alone).

That does raise another question though: How viable is it to not develop any affinity? If it is a situation where a non-affinity faction just cannot compete, then these resources must be common enough where RNG cannot decide you lose a game automatically by not spawning near any.

Click to expand...

the affinities and the resources used by the affinities are not strictly tied together (give or take).

Ie, you can get a high level in one affinity (tech based boosts) but never have the resource related to it.

and it's never viable to not have 'some' affinity (Ie, start to finish of a game, if you're still at 0 affinity in all 3 you're likely dead). How much you need probably depends on what you're doing.

Good to know!

For those that can't see the stream:
This is the Best I could gather from the video.

The orbital layer + teleporting sat

Supremacy Capital with parts Purity (check the energy deficit top right corner )

Angel + Stats (it reminds me of the Reaper Destroyers from Mass Effect 3)

Purity Victory components

Some improvements

LEV units + Stats

Some tile yields

The value of Firaxite *even for Purity

The Affinity Levels

BEFanatic said:

I'd guess the affinity resources will be guaranteed on some level. For such a core mechanic, I'd be surprised if it were like Civ 5 where you could spawn an entire continent without a single coal resource.

Click to expand...

If you look at the gameplay that we've seen so far, the 3 affinity resources seem to be pretty evenly distributed. I highly doubt that there would be a situation where you could expand on a large continent and not find any of one resource.

That does raise another question though: How viable is it to not develop any affinity? If it is a situation where a non-affinity faction just cannot compete, then these resources must be common enough where RNG cannot decide you lose a game automatically by not spawning near any.

Click to expand...

I am guessing you could win a domination victory without developing any affinity but you would probably have to do it pretty fast because as soon as the other sponsors advance in an affinity, your military would get completely outclassed. You might be able to play a peace game, avoiding war, and go science to get a contact victory. But again, that would be hugely difficult, I would imagine.

Also 2 more artworks.

TacNet Satellite:

Another Unknown Satellite (even though it is supposed to be an Economy Sat):

I'd imagine resource availability would be a larger problem on archipelago where they have more chances to spawn on tiny, worthless islands. Since you usually start on a relatively larger, nice island, what you have there would be the best option unless you don't mind settling a bad spot just for the needed resource.

vahouth said:

Also 2 more artworks.

TacNet Satellite:

Spoiler :

Another Unknown Satellite (even though it is supposed to be an Economy Sat):

Spoiler :

Click to expand...

Might the second one be the satellite shown in the Purity game that added +2 culture to the tile yield for all tiles in radius of effect?

I doubt the affinity-related resources are so critical the game will to a large extent dictate which affinity you should go for based on your surroundings. If they're resources that are only fully utilized in the late game (like, say, Oil in Civ5), you can acquire them in due time. Starting without an abundance of them nearby might be inconvenient, a minor handicap, but nothing particularly crippling unless, perhaps, you're playing against the hardest AI.

We still don't know for sure how many units/buildings make use of them or how early they'll need them, but I doubt you'll need to be swimming in a particular resource to be well within the realm of effectiveness. Plus, in the livestream they explained all factions have uses for the specific affinity materials. Much like you'd have use for iron and coal beyond the ages when they are a military necessity. Not to mention they're a bargaining chip with those that'd really need them.

See, I see affinities as a belief system. Almost like a religion. I don't think an ardent xenophobe will change their minds about hybridizing humanity with aliens just because xenomass happens to be the most convenient strategic resource. Same with a technophobe and cybernetics, as well as a post-humanist or environmentalist and purity standpoint.

I am rather disappointed that they didn't show off more of the late-game harmony units and infrastructure. But the other units looked very cool!