SHaW1986
Prince
ark of the covenant; capable of destroying any unit but lacking in defense. can only build one.
Hebrew civilization. Play as Solomon!
- Thread starter Solver
- Start date
waynester10
Chieftain
I don't agree with the statement above. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. But, one of the things I always liked about Civilization is that it sort of picks out historical elements from different nations and puts them in a different context, so you can play things out in a way that is like history in ways but not the same as history. So historical and non-historical people groups could theoretically be both put into the Civ game. I like the idea of a Civ with either David or Solomon as leader. David, in the Bible and historically, was more at war but Solomon was at peace.
Sirotnikov
Chieftain
"Hebrew" is a perfectly legitimate name as is evident here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews
Israelites is another good name, but I suspect it will raise tensions or confuse people.
While it is correct that the Judah and Israeli kingdoms were, for the most part, insignificant military wise and shortlived, the hebrews had disproportional and lasting cultural effect on the area, and later the modern world. The hebrew temple was somewhat known at the time (though I don't know if it was the most impressive), and eventually the bible became a very very influential book.
The bible took up on popular moral codes (such as Hammurabi's code) and expanded upon them heavily, introducing many bright ideas that were later forgotten and not followed upon. Exmple: the bible spells out separation of church and state, as the Hebrew Monarch is not in any way a representative of God, and usually does not go along with the priests too well. The treatment of fellow man and the poor and meek is considered of greater importance than sacrifice to the lord. All things which are uncommon in those days.
Judaism was among the first monotheistic religions, if not the first one. This holds even if it wasn't clearly monotheistic until the 2nd temple, and even though (as properly noted) the Israelites were quite poor at following their own relgion, and follow Baal and Ashura.
I think this should be some sort of spiritual Civ, that while not militarily strong, should be hard to defeat. I imagine that the Bible should be some sort of wonder with world wide repercussions, with the temple being a minor wonder.
Don't forget to add Jesus as a special person
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews
Israelites is another good name, but I suspect it will raise tensions or confuse people.
While it is correct that the Judah and Israeli kingdoms were, for the most part, insignificant military wise and shortlived, the hebrews had disproportional and lasting cultural effect on the area, and later the modern world. The hebrew temple was somewhat known at the time (though I don't know if it was the most impressive), and eventually the bible became a very very influential book.
The bible took up on popular moral codes (such as Hammurabi's code) and expanded upon them heavily, introducing many bright ideas that were later forgotten and not followed upon. Exmple: the bible spells out separation of church and state, as the Hebrew Monarch is not in any way a representative of God, and usually does not go along with the priests too well. The treatment of fellow man and the poor and meek is considered of greater importance than sacrifice to the lord. All things which are uncommon in those days.
Judaism was among the first monotheistic religions, if not the first one. This holds even if it wasn't clearly monotheistic until the 2nd temple, and even though (as properly noted) the Israelites were quite poor at following their own relgion, and follow Baal and Ashura.
I think this should be some sort of spiritual Civ, that while not militarily strong, should be hard to defeat. I imagine that the Bible should be some sort of wonder with world wide repercussions, with the temple being a minor wonder.
Don't forget to add Jesus as a special person
They were small, yes. But they weren't short lived. The Judean monarchy lasted 500 years. The total time span of ancient Israel (including the period of the Judges) was more like 700 years.
And, of course, the civilization didn't end with the monarchy. With one 70 year lull (the Babylonian Exile), Judah was self-governing and semi-autonomous for most of the 400 years after the monarchy fell, then became fully independent again for roughly a century (the Hasmonean Kingdom).
That's much longer then many in-game civs stuck around. Heck, even the US hasn't been around anywhere near as long as the Judean monarchy lasted.
Fanatic Zealot
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2010
- Messages
- 12
A more historically accurate UA would be "Let The People Go", which makes cities that other civilisations capture from the Hebrews stay in longer resistance and produce more unhappiness.
I can't agree with the above... what evidence?
The only reason why the bible is regarded as more than just historical document is because of believers. But this is a discussion for somewhere else.
+1 for the idea!
I agree. The religious discussion regarding the Bible isn't meant for this thread and should be discussed elsewhere.
The Government
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2010
- Messages
- 40
The unique unit should be a Great Prophet, which replaces the Great Artist. He can provide a free social policy as well as all other things. The GA doesn't do much. Let the People Go is historically accurate but quite useless to the player.
a free social policy? wow.. don't u think that's a bit TOO far?
i meen the great prophet plus the cultur your city producec would make you acomplish the 5 braches in a mather of turns..
OR you can make him apear very rarely..
i meen the great prophet plus the cultur your city producec would make you acomplish the 5 braches in a mather of turns..
OR you can make him apear very rarely..
You need 25 SoPo's to finish the game.
You need something like 80 tech's to finish it.
So give it a 33% spawn rate for great prophets? (Thus 67% for Artists)
And maybe add a free great prophet @ Philosophy.
Sorry, the bible isn't A document any more than a library is.
colonelogic
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7
quick question. I am new to civ 5 modding and scenario building, but I have a map i have edited, and would like to use this mod and others on that map in worldbuilder to create some scenarios, but I can't seem to mesh the two. Is there a way to access the new details on an existing map in worldbuilder?
bloodycelt
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2002
- Messages
- 25
OK.
1. The only historical evidence outside the Bible for the Kingdom was a table mentioning the House of Omri (Ahab) and a few Assyrian records. I do recall mentioning the finding of babylonian arrows in the debris dumped from Temple Mount a lil while back. (This doesn't mean Solomon didn't exist... but we have only one source, and the earliest document we have is from the Hellenistic Period).
2. Palestine/Cannan was a rich land because of vineyards and some fertile land in an arid location, and also due to being on trade routes to the Phoenician cities and to Syria. So Israel/Judah did have wealth.
3. Ancient Israel was known for their fortification technology. Samara, Jerusalem were both very advanced defensive walls, Jerusalem had an underground well. I would give one unique building as an early wall that is cheap and powerful to give them this advantage.
4. Their religion was focused on this particular land, so I would give them a bonus for a smaller empire and increased bonuses gotten from religious buildings.
5. Ahab should be an optional choice considering he's one of the few Kings mentioned outside the Bible. Some even think the temple was built during his reign. (It's clear a large amount of the old testament was redacted from older sources twice: During Joisah's reign and during the time of Ezra.)
6. Given what they are known for I would have their Settlers as military units.
7. I would give them a unique air unit for late game since they have one of the better air forces in the world currently. Just my two cents.
1. The only historical evidence outside the Bible for the Kingdom was a table mentioning the House of Omri (Ahab) and a few Assyrian records. I do recall mentioning the finding of babylonian arrows in the debris dumped from Temple Mount a lil while back. (This doesn't mean Solomon didn't exist... but we have only one source, and the earliest document we have is from the Hellenistic Period).
2. Palestine/Cannan was a rich land because of vineyards and some fertile land in an arid location, and also due to being on trade routes to the Phoenician cities and to Syria. So Israel/Judah did have wealth.
3. Ancient Israel was known for their fortification technology. Samara, Jerusalem were both very advanced defensive walls, Jerusalem had an underground well. I would give one unique building as an early wall that is cheap and powerful to give them this advantage.
4. Their religion was focused on this particular land, so I would give them a bonus for a smaller empire and increased bonuses gotten from religious buildings.
5. Ahab should be an optional choice considering he's one of the few Kings mentioned outside the Bible. Some even think the temple was built during his reign. (It's clear a large amount of the old testament was redacted from older sources twice: During Joisah's reign and during the time of Ezra.)
6. Given what they are known for I would have their Settlers as military units.
7. I would give them a unique air unit for late game since they have one of the better air forces in the world currently. Just my two cents.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Nice work! I would have preferred King David for the leader, and maybe a different UU (slingers were common in ancient times, but hardly unique to Israel, despite the story of David and Goliath). Still, the UA you have works well with Solomon's legacy, and gives the Hebrew civ quite a bit of flexibility (with perhaps a slight bent towards science). 
What about a Trait about dameging other civs? somthing about making rebelions or somthing in the enemy citys just a idea. Nad slinger is out with Incas. what about 2 special buildings culdent what be a funny idea?
A special temple and a wall maybe?
ps David maybe never existed
This mod needs to be worked again!
How about
UA: Holy Land
Cultural specialist in cities don't cost population. +1 Culture per turn for every city connected to the capital by road before archaeology is discovered. Hebrew cities have -33% defense.
Reasoning: I think this trait would add an interesting strategy not only for the Hebrew civilization when your playing as them but also when your playing against them. The penalty of defense for Hebrew cities is to reflect the constant occupation in Jerusalem and surrounding cities throughout history.
UU: Great Prophet
Replaces the Great Artist. Can create a religious landmark as opposed to a landmark. A Religious landmark increases Culture by 6 and happiness by 2.
Reasoning: The Great Prophet would work well with the trait and would reflect the significance of religious landmarks for the Hebrew civilization.
UB: Cistern
Replaces the watermill. +3 food, +2 defense, +1 production. May be built without a river next to the city.
Reasoning: Cisterns gathered rainfall so they wouldn't require a river. Cisterns were also effective during invasions as they provided a supply of water; making blockades less effective. The best example of this is Rome's invasion of Masada.
How about
UA: Holy Land
Cultural specialist in cities don't cost population. +1 Culture per turn for every city connected to the capital by road before archaeology is discovered. Hebrew cities have -33% defense.
Reasoning: I think this trait would add an interesting strategy not only for the Hebrew civilization when your playing as them but also when your playing against them. The penalty of defense for Hebrew cities is to reflect the constant occupation in Jerusalem and surrounding cities throughout history.
UU: Great Prophet
Replaces the Great Artist. Can create a religious landmark as opposed to a landmark. A Religious landmark increases Culture by 6 and happiness by 2.
Reasoning: The Great Prophet would work well with the trait and would reflect the significance of religious landmarks for the Hebrew civilization.
UB: Cistern
Replaces the watermill. +3 food, +2 defense, +1 production. May be built without a river next to the city.
Reasoning: Cisterns gathered rainfall so they wouldn't require a river. Cisterns were also effective during invasions as they provided a supply of water; making blockades less effective. The best example of this is Rome's invasion of Masada.
Or how about a UA called 'Promised Land' that does something like this:
At map generation, the game designates a part of the map as yours. (This would be the same as how the game figures out if other civs think you possess land that they feel is theirs, I think.) This area would be marked on the map. You would not be able to settle outside of that area, but so long as Hebrew military units are fighting within that area, they receive a 33% bonus. You would still be able to conquer cities outside of this area, but you wouldn't receive the bonus while fighting outside this area.
At map generation, the game designates a part of the map as yours. (This would be the same as how the game figures out if other civs think you possess land that they feel is theirs, I think.) This area would be marked on the map. You would not be able to settle outside of that area, but so long as Hebrew military units are fighting within that area, they receive a 33% bonus. You would still be able to conquer cities outside of this area, but you wouldn't receive the bonus while fighting outside this area.
Similar threads
