MilesBeyond
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2011
- Messages
- 444
So after over a decade of playing this game religiously, I've just now gotten into modding it, heh. The first thing I'm looking at doing is making a minimalist "balance changes" patch that irons out some of the issues the game's had that's always bugged me, but I need some input on that.
To me, the big issue with Economy civics is that there's pretty much an established hierarchy:
State Property: Amazing and should almost always be used.
Free Market: Decent and can be better than SP if you're going big on corps
Mercantilism: It's possible to conceive of a situation where you would use this civic. Probably.
Environmentalism: There are Modern-era civics? (Technically super-late Industrial, but whatever)
This ought to change. So, here are my proposed changes.
First, State Property. IMHO +1 from Watermills and Workshops alongside a raw +10% is already a pretty powerful bonus. The no maintenance costs from distance to palace is just ridiculous overkill. So I say axe that part and leave the rest of it as is.
The big problem with SP is that it seems to fill two roles: More production, and a stronger economy, especially for large empires. Moreover, it fills those roles well. Very well. I think. By stripping it down to only one role, we come closer to a more reasonable civic, I think.
Mercantilism: Give it +50% from internal trade routes. The big issue with Mercantilism is that not only does it lose you your external trade income, it also effectively loses you a trade route in terms of opportunity cost compared to Free Market. One specialist per city doesn't make up that difference IMHO, but free specialists combined with higher-yield internal trade routes might.
Oh, and the other thing - move it way up in the tech tree. Currency seems like the logical choice but Currency is a damn powerful tech as it is. Maybe Compass? Also it's possible that moving it earlier and the +50% aren't both necessary (as no foreign trade routes is significantly less punishing in the early game).
I'm gonna level with you, I have no idea what role Mercantilism is supposed to fill. To me, making it earlier will at least mean that the free specialist is more powerful. IMHO the other alternative is to completely redesign the civic.
Free Market is okay with me.
Environmentalism... I feel like there's been a million mod projects to try and make this one more useful already. I guess it's technically a growth civic? Its role is pretty clearly management. But it just seems like too little, too late. I would say move it up to Biology or even Sci. Meth (a lot of moving up here but it bothers me how late the Econ civics are). AFAIC the main use of Environmentalism is to combat the massive generated by industrializing, so being able to have it in place as your Factories and Coal Plants are coming out would be nice. On top of that, replace the bonus from Public Transit with maybe halving or even cancelling the penalty from Factories having access to Oil and Coal.
To me, Environmentalism would still be a pretty niche civic, but at least it would be a niche civic that fulfils its role, rather than a niche civic that you probably won't access until after you've already dealt with the health crisis.
Thoughts?
To me, the big issue with Economy civics is that there's pretty much an established hierarchy:
State Property: Amazing and should almost always be used.
Free Market: Decent and can be better than SP if you're going big on corps
Mercantilism: It's possible to conceive of a situation where you would use this civic. Probably.
Environmentalism: There are Modern-era civics? (Technically super-late Industrial, but whatever)
This ought to change. So, here are my proposed changes.
First, State Property. IMHO +1 from Watermills and Workshops alongside a raw +10% is already a pretty powerful bonus. The no maintenance costs from distance to palace is just ridiculous overkill. So I say axe that part and leave the rest of it as is.
The big problem with SP is that it seems to fill two roles: More production, and a stronger economy, especially for large empires. Moreover, it fills those roles well. Very well. I think. By stripping it down to only one role, we come closer to a more reasonable civic, I think.
Mercantilism: Give it +50% from internal trade routes. The big issue with Mercantilism is that not only does it lose you your external trade income, it also effectively loses you a trade route in terms of opportunity cost compared to Free Market. One specialist per city doesn't make up that difference IMHO, but free specialists combined with higher-yield internal trade routes might.
Oh, and the other thing - move it way up in the tech tree. Currency seems like the logical choice but Currency is a damn powerful tech as it is. Maybe Compass? Also it's possible that moving it earlier and the +50% aren't both necessary (as no foreign trade routes is significantly less punishing in the early game).
I'm gonna level with you, I have no idea what role Mercantilism is supposed to fill. To me, making it earlier will at least mean that the free specialist is more powerful. IMHO the other alternative is to completely redesign the civic.
Free Market is okay with me.
Environmentalism... I feel like there's been a million mod projects to try and make this one more useful already. I guess it's technically a growth civic? Its role is pretty clearly management. But it just seems like too little, too late. I would say move it up to Biology or even Sci. Meth (a lot of moving up here but it bothers me how late the Econ civics are). AFAIC the main use of Environmentalism is to combat the massive generated by industrializing, so being able to have it in place as your Factories and Coal Plants are coming out would be nice. On top of that, replace the bonus from Public Transit with maybe halving or even cancelling the penalty from Factories having access to Oil and Coal.
To me, Environmentalism would still be a pretty niche civic, but at least it would be a niche civic that fulfils its role, rather than a niche civic that you probably won't access until after you've already dealt with the health crisis.
Thoughts?