Ruff02 - Concurrent Succession Game

I can post screenies from home if need be...

Okay…this is my first Monarch game, so I’m too sure what to expect since I think the difficulty starts to really increase at this level and the AI is actually better too…hmmm..so, Gandhi, Ind/Spir, Fast Worker, Mysticism and Mining…

I agonized about the first turn for a full ten mins before hitting end turn…religion or bronze, bronze or religion?? Ultimately, the prevalence of “religion doesn’t help @ higher levels” posts AND the fact that 3 other people are playing the same thing convinced me that BW was the way to go, and go for the Fast Worker right away (hmmm…w/Delhi blding a Warrior, BW=15t; bld FW, BW=14t?!?!? ~ What’s up with that??). With all the food by us there, India’s fast worker, and starting w/Mining, BW seemed like a no-brainer to me for chops, copper AND slavery. Without a UU, I’ve always considered India a vulnerable civ so early copper will be a HUGE help I think.

Also, though he’s ind., I’m going to try to avoid going wonder-happy and just go for the key ones.

4000: War. NE, settle in place; Delhi: FW=12t; BWing=14t, the warrior will explore.
3840: Delhi pops borders.
3760: Met Genghis (peace); popped GH-map; Holy S--! Genghis is CLOSE! Spied a border to the NE ~ looks German or poss. English. SCREENSHOTS
3560: Hinduism FIDL
3520: Delhi: FW>Settler; worker to forest to wait….
3480: got to Karakorum, 2 archers! (What bonuses does the AI get on King?)
3440: discover BW>Fishing (get me off this rock!); Slavery revolt, chopping silk
3320: Chop done, start next
3200: Delhi: Settler>Fishing Boat; discover Fishing>Sailing; chopping…
3080: Delhi: Boat>Warr; Worker starts on mine
3040: Bombay is built on hill N of copper, w/Incense and Stone in fat cross, Warr. Started; met Fred (peace)
2920: Delhi: Warr (fortified) >Stone (seems like I broke my rule on wonders, but I think we’re going to need the culture to start pushing on the Mongols. Hopefully, once the Stone is hooked up to Bombay, we can put a wonder in there too)
2880: Mine is complete@Delhi, chopping started.
2840: Last turn. Nothing much happened; hit enter.

Delhi gets SH in 12t, Bombay has NO growth to work a hill so that we can get another Warr. out quickly to defend the city better; also, sailing comes due in 2

I’m not sure HOW I did with this as I’ve never played King before? Should I not have gotten so close to Genghis?? Maybe, but I think if Genghis got that copper, he was def going to come calling sooner rather than later…I think we can squeeze 5 cities total on our island here, eventually nabbing, too, any Mongol cities that infest it….SCREENSHOTS
 
@ Bob

hey now...

where can i get that "turnset log" that is all setup like that with the turn indicator and everything else??
 
Turn 1 (0) (4000 BC)
Gandhi - Spiritual (No anarchy, Double production speed of the Temple) and Industrious (Wonder production increased 50 percent, Double production speed of Forge). Well, to me this suggests a cultural victory attempt - but I guess that this is too early to think about victory conditions.

Looking at our starting site shows 3 health resources (fish, cows, corn) and 1 happy resource (silk). So health shouldn't be a problem for a while but unhappiness might kick in soon.


Delhi founded
Delhi begins: Barracks
I think that founding in place is the best bet - access to all the resources, on a hill for a defensive plus (if we need it) and an early production bonus to boot. I don't have many build options - too early for a worker / settler, don't need protection as this is an Archipelago map and we shouldn't meet any opposition for a while - so Barracks gets the nod - just to put some hammers into it - will switch to worker when we hit size 2.

Now, the research question is much harder ... here are the options ...


Hmm - fishing, have to do that some time but no real rush with the land based food resources. Hunting for scouts - good but on an island I expect the goodie huts to be gone soon. Agriculture - good but can wait. Ditto for Bronze Working.

So it is down to Meditation (in 10) or Polytheism (in 13) / Buddhism or Hinduism. Typically, Meditation goes really soon - some spiritual leader grabs it, then Polytheism and lastly Monotheism - then we have to wait a while for another religion. I am going to gamble 10 of my 30 turns on meditation. Lets hope the other spiritual leaders went for Polytheism (or there aren't any other spiritual leaders).
Research begun: Meditation

Ok, so here is our Delhi ...


Turn 2 (1) (3960 BC)
I start the warrior off south east - I can see coast to the west and a goodie hut to the south / west. I plan to leave that goodie hut until I get a scout (or Delhi consumes it).

Turn 3 (2) (3920 BC)
More walking.

Turn 4 (3) (3880 BC)
Ditto

IBT:
Contact made: Mongolian Empire - Oh @#%@!

Wait - isn't this an Archipelago map? Why are sharing an Island with another civ - and why oh why did it have to be Genghis Khan. Gandhi would have been nicer (oh wait - that is us). I suppose it could have been worse (Monty - I am your friend, here - feel the weight of my soldiers feet!).

Turn 5 (4) (3840 BC)
Delhi's borders expand
Right! Um, rethinking. Errr, Ummm. This really throws a spanner into the works (or for those American's reading this - a wrench into the works). Oh, firstly, have to race back and pick up that goodie hut before Genghis gets his filthy mits on it...


Now - what else. Slow expansion, exploring, a touch of sailing, etc, etc - gone - out the window - no more. This is a battle for this island. We could teach him our religion and make buddy-buddy. Yes, that is one option but we are talking about Genghis Khan here! Only slightly better than Monty! There is no way he will not attack us if he runs out of land - even if we are at +20 with him.

So, order of the day - get religion, get Bronze Working, find Copper, build Axes, fix 'Genghis' problem!

Turn 6 (5) (3800 BC)
Warrior still running back to goodie hut - run you skirt wearing nancy boy!

Turn 7 (6) (3760 BC)
Tribal village results: technology
A Tech! Yes - you little beauty! Please be Bronze Working!

Tech learned: Agriculture
Oh grand, simply smashing - we can farm Genghis to death!

Turn 8 (7) (3720 BC)
Delhi grows: 2

Turn 9 (8) (3680 BC)

Turn 10 (9) (3640 BC)
Tech learned: Meditation
Buddhism founded in Delhi
We win the race to Meditation ...

Why is the turn counter in the logger different from that on the screen? The logger prints the 'Turn' message at the end of the end of each turn. This is no event for the beginning of the beginning of each turn (which is the logical place for it). So, the learn tech and unit / building completion reports are made 1 turn early. Understand? No, me neither.

Turn 11 (10) (3600 BC)
Now, rush to Bronze Working (due in 14). I can build a worker in 10 but I want him to chop a settler. So, I am going to keep putting hammers into my Barracks then get the worker and Bronze Working to complete on the same turn.
Research begun: Bronze Working

IBT:
Hinduism founded in a distant land - glad I didn't go for that. It would have taking me 13 turns and we would have missed Hinduism.

Turn 12 (11) (3560 BC)
Building, researching, guarding, watching ...

Turn 13 (12) (3520 BC)
Contact made: German Empire
What is this? Grand Central Station?

At least he looks like he is on a different island. Lucky we are playing on noble level. What? Oh, right ...


Turn 14 (13) (3480 BC)
Delhi begins: Fast Worker
Ok, BW due in 10. 10 turns for my worker - get going!


... time passes ...
 
... more time passes ...

Turn 21 (20) (3200 BC)
Delhi's borders expand

Turn 22 (21) (3160 BC)

Turn 23 (22) (3120 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working
Delhi finishes: Fast Worker
Yay - we know where the copper is. And we can chop a settler to go get it! I keep building the Barricks but sent the wood chop to the settler. This is easy if you cancel the workers orders at the end of each round - select any worker and hit Alt-A (cancel all worker orders). The only down side is that you have to re-issue all worker orders each round. The big plus is that it allows you to *exactly* control where (ie to which item being built) the chop goes.

And here is the world as we know it ...


Turn 24 (23) (3080 BC)
Research begun: The Wheel
We have to know the wheel to connect up that copper - better research it - due in 5 (I think).

Turn 25 (24) (3040 BC)

Turn 26 (25) (3000 BC)
Delhi begins: Settler
Worker finishes chop
Delhi begins: Barracks
Delhi grows: 3
Did someone have a question ... sorry, speak up ... oh, why am I chopping down all the forests? Yes, I know that this is an island and we need all the production tiles we can get. BUT - forests can only be a future productin tile if we have a future.

Turn 27 (26) (2960 BC)

Turn 28 (27) (2920 BC)

Turn 29 (28) (2880 BC)
Delhi begins: Settler
Worker finishes chop
Delhi begins: Barracks

Oh dear! Now it is a race to the copper ...


Turn 30 (29) (2840 BC)

Turn 31 (17) (2800 BC)
And here is the state of Delhi.


Suggestions for next player:
  • whip the barracks - yes, I know it will finish next turn but any excess hammers (about 30) will go to the next thing to build - THE SETTLER. He is on 60 of 100 so the excess will put him on 90 and we are generating about 5 food plus hammers per turn - settler in two turns.
  • wheel in 1 - start that fast worker roading to the copper - we want both our new city and Delhi linked to the copper so that we can build Axes.
 
I'm sorry - did I not tell you where the copper was. Oh, a complete oversight on my part. Here it is ... have a good day ...
 
Autologger can be found here:

One note, its a pretty dry set of info, so don't depend on it for your writeup, there's a lot of thinking that's missing!
 
Here's mine:

OK, I played 30 turns (obviously) and I think my start was pretty decent. I was able to grab Buddhism which is good, hopefully we can spread it to Genghis Khan and become allies so he doesn’t turn on us and rip apart our empire.



I sent our first warrior exploring north and then back south and met Genghis next to the desert hill. Delhi built a warrior->warrior->barracks until it grew to size 3 then switched to a worker-> settler. I was planning on getting out a worker to chop rush a settler but took a detour to meditation hoping it would pay off and we would grab a religion and unfortunately Bronze Working had to wait. Therefore I built the worker a little later than I usually do. This is not my usual start as I usually disregaurd religion early on but I thought it was the right choice.

Tech Path: Medition-> Bronzeworking-> Fishing-> agriculture.

Research is on agriculture not only for our corn, but we need to get to animal husbandry to see if we have horses. After that I suggest some more worker techs. Of course, if we don’t have horses then maybe Iron Working will be the right choice to see if we have something to defend our empire with.

Here are my dotmaps:




The settler that is due in 5 turns (chopped a forest) should go to the maroon dot in the last picture (potential spoilers whited out :) ) to block off Genghis’s expansion to our land.

I did meet Germany to the east of Genghis and there is still a yellow border to the west of us. We should try to get out a workboat to explore around some.

I got a question. If there is a potential spoiler as far as resources go, are we supposed to disregaurd it in the right-up?

Edit: (for example, copper)
 
Ok, we have all four posts (feel free to remove the spoilers). Now open for discussion.
 
bobrath said:
Autologger can be found here:

One note, its a pretty dry set of info, so don't depend on it for your writeup, there's a lot of thinking that's missing!
thanks! never used a mod before...oooo...i'm gonna pop my cherry :goodjob:

all in all, i'm not sure WHICH save is best, but i feel that mine is worst, though...

first impressions, Knupp probably...got a religion, the settler is already out, and even though Delhi is only Pop2, i think that we can easily make up that deficit w/our food resources...esp w/Fishing AND agr already...
 
I feel that Riff probably got the best here.

Barrak is ready and setler will be shortly behind. Lucky agriculture from hut.
It's really saves as time right now.

About cooper. I do think we need it right now. Khan will attack and we better take him out first. Second capital cite would be nice. The moment he get Axes he will come after as.

Second posibility to consider is to ignore cooper as it would be wasteland city, build city on Red dot Knupp propoused research massontry and build walls. Walls and couple galley in city to sink all incoming galley will garanty our safety for a long time, untill Khan get construction. We might find cooper on some other island or iron on our peace of land.

About Yellow dot. Personally I would settle on wines. Health from riwe and nice hill for a few shield and beter land coverage. ON other hand yellow dot save wines and rive income and have could more coastal tiles.
Blue dot is fine.

So, for first city. Red dot or figth for cooper?
 
My vote goes for Ruff simply because his settler will be built 3 turns faster than mine (if you whip the rax).

I'm reluctant to try to grab that copper. We could very well lose a culture war that close to his capital. I do think we should at least try though, and quickly take Ghengis out. I suggest getting two more settler out (after the copper settler). One should go to the yellow dot and one should go to the red dot. After that get some axes out ASAP and kill Ghengis.

Edit: Plus ruff got lucky and popped that hut for a tech. I only got 48 gold.
 
pholkhero said:
first impressions, Knupp probably...got a religion, the settler is already out, and even though Delhi is only Pop2, i think that we can easily make up that deficit w/our food resources...esp w/Fishing AND agr already...

Delhi is pop 3 now IIRC (maybe 4?). That screenshot was taken early on in the turns, when I founded Buddhism.

And I don't have a settler out yet, still 5 turns. I chopped one forest but a definite mistake I did make was not to chop another. I could have had that settler out now. Oh well.
 
Summary (correct me if I make a mistake):

  • all - delhi settled in place
  • Bobrath
    • experience from hut
    • TECH: poly -> fishing -> agri -> copper (in 8)
    • PROD: Oblisk -> some hammers in Barracks -> workboat -> fast worker (in 4)
  • pholkhero
    • map from hut
    • TECH: BW -> fishing -> sailing (in 2)
    • PROD: Worker -> Settler (w chop) -> workboat -> warrior -> stonehenge (in 12)
    • EXTRA: city 1N of copper
  • Ruff
    • agri from hut
    • TECH: Meditation (gets religion) -> BW -> wheel (in 1)
    • PROD: barracks (in 1) -> worker -> settler (in queue with 60/100 hammers - in 2 with whip)
  • knupp715
    • gold from hut
    • TECH: meditation (gets religion) -> BW -> fishing -> agri (in ?)
    • PROD: warrior -> warrior -> barracks (still in queue?) -> worker -> settler (in 5)
 
Actially why not whipe Setler itself for 2 population after barrack finished?
Subject to aviability. Some times I am confuse why in one case it says 1 pop avalible on size 3 city in other case it would say 2 pop avalible.

Overflow could be directed to worker. City does not have 2 efficient tiles yet, but can get irrigated corn fast and grow back. We have happiness from religion, we need Granary (Pottery) for efficient whipping.
 
ruff_hi said:
[*]pholkhero
  • map from hut
  • TECH: BW -> fishing -> sailing (in 2)
  • PROD: Worker -> Settler (w chop) -> workboat -> warrior -> stonehenge (in about a billion)
  • EXTRA: city 1N of copper
  • ~ SH in about ten turns or so! I wouldn't have built it w/a billion turns to go! ;)
 
Mutineer said:
Actially why not whipe Setler itself for 2 population after barrack finished?
Subject to aviability. Some times I am confuse why in one case it says 1 pop avalible on size 3 city in other case it would say 2 pop avalible.

Overflow could be directed to worker. City does not have 2 efficient tiles yet, but can get irrigated corn fast and grow back. We have happiness from religion, we need Granary (Pottery) for efficient whipping.
That is a good point - letting barracks finish then whipping the settler - that way, get settler in turn after barracks. However, it would take 2 pop to completely whip the settler (he is 60/100 hammers) and you get 30 hammers per population point. I don't really want to spend 2 points, so whipping the barracks will do this ...

Barracks are 57/60 so whipping it will put it to 87/60. The 4 hammers this round will make the overflow 31 (87+4-60). These will go to the settler to make him 91/100. Two rounds of hammers and food will finish him off.

Yes, most efficient whipping is with granary. That was going to be TECH I suggest we go for next. Needed BW+Wheel to hook up copper.
 
Man tough choices here already. Ruff and Knupp got us the early religion which could make a difference on such a crowded start, but pholkhero has the city already built... course without wheel we don't have copper hooked up for the near future. Additionaly, it looks like Pholk's founding of that city stalled Khaaaaan's second city that I saw in mine. My save... too much wandering and poor choices - without being too self sacrificing, I may have the biggest healthiest city, but I stink on the war footing side of things.

I like Pholk's choice of copper city site, mostly cause it gains some defense from the hill settling. Knupp and Ruff don't have that available because of Khaaaan's second city being too close.

Maybe we give up on copper and pray for iron somewhere close? We can run a stalling action from Knupp's save and go to sailing next so we can find other islands. I am scared to see how close we are to 2/3 other civs. How small is this world?!?

(I was happy to see that Ruff had the same intenion of letting the city pop the hut but then had to rush back ahead of evil scout of doom).

More thoughts later - no vote on best save yet.
 
I really think that we have to take out Khan. Two capitals would be a huge bonus. To do this, we need axes and quick - before he gets them. Our best bet is pholkhero's save.

  • Advantages
    • city already on site
    • on a hill for defensive bonus
    • workboat on the fish for population bonus - extra whipping potential
  • Disadvantages
    • no religion - but we can pick up another fairly easy
    • no barracks - would build this instead of stonehedge (there is no way we are going to out culture a capital)
    • 3rd tech choice wasn't that hot - need wheel for roads, then pottery for grainary
 
Time for me to put in my two cents. ;)

I like Ruff's save the best. I think it is the best played under optimal conditions. The problem we have here is less than optimal conditions. That being said, Pholk's may be better. Having that city already established at the copper, with no pressure from the second mongolian city, is key. It looks like there isn't much great land on this island, so we definitely need to take out Khan as quickly as possible, for two reasons:

1. He's Khan, he will attack us, and he's in our way.
2. If we try to take him out, and it takes a long time, then we stall our chances at getting to better lands on other islands.

In the end, I have to support for Pholk's save for those reasons, though I put a strong second place vote on Ruff's. I won't be dissapointed if that is what we come to. A free tech is a free 10 turns give or take and the copper isn't that far away. If it wasn't for that damn second Mongolian city.....
 
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