[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

Well, I'm on it right now. I'm doing the most UNFUN aspect of this right now, which is getting all of the texts and stats to be right. Which includes names of units and stuff. Its exceedingly boring. Basically when I finish this part (and fix those weird Iranian Grenadiers and Cannons) I will be finished with both module packs. But the Americas pack is waiting on Bernie and what will no doubt be his amazing Brazilian industrial units. My goal is to have Module Pack II finished tonight, so I can release it.

And another thing, Madman, have you got the game to work yet? All of this work I'm doing means nothing to me if everyone can't play it, so I want to know if you can.

BTW: the Iroquois and Israel buttons/flags look fantastic. I don't know if I like the Colonization Iroquois flag just yet, but that is an issue that will be determined in the Diplomacy Expansion. But thanks for all of your help, it has been invaluable.
 
It works excellently, thank you. I even put in Hungary in it. I don't care much for the Teutons and Nubians, and don't really see a need for the Phoenicians. I mean, aren't the Carthaginians Phoenicians?

I feel, though, that something is missing from Hungary... a little guy by the name of Lajos Kossuth.

Also, why is Mao's favorite religion Confucianism. He was a hardcore atheist. It should be None.

Another thing I just noticed... the Hungarians apparently know English. You know, I know of an excellent Hungarian sound kit. It's in the Select/Order sounds thread I have. There's also a better Hebrew set which sounds more natural and Hebrew-like.
 
It works excellently, thank you. I even put in Hungary in it. I don't care much for the Teutons and Nubians, and don't really see a need for the Phoenicians. I mean, aren't the Carthaginians Phoenicians?

And you have discovered why I made my modules the way I did. I didn't give them specific order/sounds or diplomacy texts because those things are non-modular. So the reason I did that (even thought it would technically look and sound better with diplo texts and custom music) is so you can pick and choose which civs you want in without changing the original game files at all. Which means you can add and remove them at your leisure without bothering to change any of the regular files. So since you are a player who sees no need for the Phoenicians, Teutonic Order, or Nubians you simply put Hungary in. But there may be a player who wants to play only with ancient civs, so they would just play with Nubia and Phoenicia and leave Hungary out. Or you might get a player who wants to ONLY play as the Teutonic Knights (they were requested by a friend BTW, that's why I made them just so you know), or you may get someone who just wants as many civs as possible so they put all of them in at once.

If I made them with custom music and custom diplomacy you would have to put them all in or have none of them. And everytime I made a new module pack you'd have to alter the entire mod each time. Plus if you decided "I don't like all of these new civs" you would have to delete the entire mod and reinstall it. This way its much easier to control which civs are in your mod and which civs are not. That was the idea behind the modules. So yes, there will be frivilous civs. For instance in the next module pack (Vietnam, Congo, Australia, Iran, Minoans, and Songhai) I am sure there will be players who see no need for the Minoans or Songhai becuase there are already Greeks and Mali (although the Songhai are not the same as the Mali). Or there may be players who want to play on an Earth map and always felt that the area of Zaire and Australia seem too empty and they ONLY want to play with Congo and Australia. Since I made them this way you can take say two from the first module pack (say Teutonic Order and Nubia), three from the Americas (Mexico, Argentina, and Canada), and then two more from Module Pack II (Vietnam and Congo) and then if you tire of those civs its easy just to remove them from the modules folder and plug in some new ones. This way you don't have to load up a huge mod with fifty civs you don't want (like Civ Gold) but still have the option of playing as that many civs.

Basically Israel and the Iroquois would have been in Module Pack I, but I wanted to give the players something new and I felt that another North American civ and a Jewish civ wouldn't hurt, so there they are. I hope this explains why I chose the civs I chose. There will be future additions as well.


I feel, though, that something is missing from Hungary... a little guy by the name of Lajos Kossuth.

Lajos Kossuth was originally there, but he was removed. I didn't want to give any modular civ more than two leaders and I thought Arpad and St. Stephan were better representatives of Hungary. I am going to re-release Module Pack I with Module Pack II and the Americas Pack (I haven't figured out which yet), so maybe if you are lucky I'll put LK in there. We'll see...

Also, why is Mao's favorite religion Confucianism. He was a hardcore atheist. It should be None.

Mao's favorite religion being Confucian was just so that the Chinese would be more likely to be confucian. This only pertains to what religion is chosen by the AI when a religion is founded. I figured under these circumstances he'd be more likely to be confucian (which is hardly a religion in the sense that the other religions are) than say Jewish or a follower of Aesir faith. Plus this way if you are NOT China, and if for some reason China founds a religion under Mao, they will be less likely to choose the religion you wanted. This just makes it easier, it doesn't make Mao any more likely to actively found a religion, so don't worry. He's still a godless heathen.

Another thing I just noticed... the Hungarians apparently know English. You know, I know of an excellent Hungarian sound kit. It's in the Select/Order sounds thread I have. There's also a better Hebrew set which sounds more natural and Hebrew-like.

Yeah, as I said before I can't add custom music to the modules and maintain the concept I explained at the start of this post. So unfortunately none of the modules will ever have their own custom diplomacy music or order/select sounds. I figured its a small sacrafice to deal with in exchange for the ability to pick and choose which civs you want in your game. I don't want the mod to be any bigger than it is (since it is already pretty big) so I had to choose between flexibility and aesthetics. I went with flexibility. You have to also remember that this mod was originally made for multiplayer games with a specific group of people. So what this means is I had to keep the original mod basically as close to the regular game as possible. (Since there is a group of us who regularly use this mod to play MP games)

So I understand it would be better with custom music and custom order/select sounds and more leaders and all of that, but I think the ability to customize the game without completely altering it is part of what makes this mod good. But anyway in the next edition of Hungary I am going to change the order/select music to something other than English. I am not sure what to use though. What do you think is the closest so Hungarian? I know that is a pretty lame question to ask (and may be considered offensive by Hungarians, believe me, I know a Hungarian chick who thought that was offensive when I asked, and her answer was "Hungarian"), but to maintain the flexibility of the mod/modules its what I have to do.
 
BTW: The Carthaginians are Phoenician in the sense that the Italians are Roman, or that the Americans are English. They are heavily Phoenician but they aren't actually Phoenician. Their culture was different, they didn't have the same leaders, they were a colony of Phoenicia and certainly had been heavily influenced by Phoenician culture and used Phoenician letters and language. But they weren't ruled by Phoenicia, and they were mixed with the local people who inhabited that area (ancient Tunisians and Numidians) as well as Sicilians and Spaniards. They also outlasted Phoenicia as well. So I'd say no to that statement.
 
I guess I'll add the sounds myself, then.
 
If you do that remember if you ever remove hungary from the game none of the sounds will work (I've tested it). Also it will screw up any MP games you might play with the mod. That's another reason I didn't add new audio files for the modular civs, because I play this mod in MP a lot.
 
I used the South American City Center building from one of those Axis&Allies Buildnig Packs (or are they Empire Earth building packs?). I agree, some of the Civ Gold buildings look a little cheesey, so I tried to avoid using them whenever possible. No offense to those guys or anything, but when you have that many civs in a game sometimes quality takes a back seat in certain areas.

Hmm, are the A&A buildings working fine for you. I tried using one and there were display problems.
 
The only two I've used work (although they had to send me a corrected SouthAmericanCityCenter01.nif file, so it didn't work at first). The only issue is the scaling, its kind of annoying but I had to go in and out of the game until I got the scaling right, but yeah they work, it just takes a while to get it to look right.
 
The only two I've used work (although they had to send me a corrected SouthAmericanCityCenter01.nif file, so it didn't work at first). The only issue is the scaling, its kind of annoying but I had to go in and out of the game until I got the scaling right, but yeah they work, it just takes a while to get it to look right.

Maybe that's why. I tried like three of them. One was fine, one had a few problems, and one (the southamericancenter) didn't work at all.
 
Alright, well I have the Americas modulepack looking great now. Just waiting on Bernie's units. But I am gonig to post a preview of the modules. Basically what I need from any visitors to this forum is some criticism and suggestions as to what I should change for some of these stats. Especially for balance reasons. Here is the first half of the preview, Argentina, Brazil and Canada. I did some research on each of them and their traits are based on how they lead and what the effects of their leadership were. Some of them are also based on mixing up trait combos among the civs and some are based on UB bonuses attached to the leader, so keep that in mind when making suggestions. (All leaders have Christianity as their favorite religion, I forgot to write down their favorite civics, but those were pretty spot on):

ARGENTINA
Starts with Fishing and Agriculture

Leaders:
  • Juan Peron - Industrious/Financial
  • Jose de San Martin - Philosophical/Organized

UB:
Logia de Independencia, replaces Castle
  • +25% :espionage:
  • -20% Maintenence
  • +1 :traderoute:
  • +50% Defense, except against Gunpowder-based units
  • -25% Damage from bombardmen, except against Gunpowder-based units
  • Can turn 1 citizen into Spy
  • +2 XP points for Spies
  • Double production speed for protective leaders

UU:
Granadero a Caballo, replaces Cavalry
  • Doesn't recieve defense bonus
  • Can withdraw from combat (30% chance)
  • +50% attack v. Rifleman
  • +50% attack v. Cannon
  • Flank attack v. Cannon
  • Starts with Flanking I



BRAZIL
Starts with Agriculture and Mining

Leaders:
  • Dom Pedro II - Industrious/Creative

UB:
Dance Club, replaces Broadcast Tower
  • +100% :culture:
  • +1 :) per 10% :culture: rate
  • Can turn 2 citizens into Artist
  • +1 :) from Hit Musicals, Hit Singles, and Hit Movies
  • +1 :) for Creative leaders

UU:
Bandeirante, replaces Musketman
  • Starts with Woodsman I and Woodsman II promotions



CANADA
Starts with Hunting and Mining

Leaders:
  • Pierrre Trudeau - Philosophical/Charismatic
  • William Lyon MacKenzie King - Industrious/Organized

UB:
Microwave Station, replaces Broadcast Tower
  • +50% :culture:
  • +50% :science:
  • +1 :) per 10% :culture: rate
  • Can turn 1 citizens into Artist
  • Can turn 1 citizens into Scientist
  • +1 :) from Hit Musicals, Hit Singles, and Hit Movies
  • +1 :) for Charismatic leaders

UU:
Canada Corps, replaces Infantry
  • +25% attack v. Artillery
  • +25% v. Gunpowder units
  • Starts with Medic I promotion
  • Gets 1 extra :move: (2 :move: )



Well, there are the first three civs. Please give me suggestions, and if you think they look good say that as well.
 
Bernie finished the Brazilians! Its a Christmas miracle! (sort of)

But anyway what I am going to do is put the units in, make sure everything works properly with them and then put up the next three civs. Hopefully after a little discussion about the UUs and UBs I can get it uploaded, but unless I get some feedback on these UUs and UBs I doubt it will be before Christmas (well for me at least).... :(

...although, I still have them, so I could always play them. :p
 
I'm not Canadian, but if you are only going to have two leaders for Canada, I think I'd go for the Champlain in place of King, if only for reason of the amazing leaderheads available for Champlain and Trudeau.
 
I'm not Canadian, but if you are only going to have two leaders for Canada, I think I'd go for the Champlain in place of King, if only for reason of the amazing leaderheads available for Champlain and Trudeau.

Yeah, that's a good suggestion, unfortunately I am using Champlain (from Colonization) as Johan de Witt. So that option went out the window. And I didn't want to have to make a leaderhead for these modules myself, because I have two I am working on at the moment.

Any suggestions on the UUs and UBs though? Or do you think they're okay?
 
I think all of the UBs and UU are pretty good and balanced.

The only thing I'm cautious about is the Microwave Station. On the one hand it is late game so it should be stronger, then again civ seems to treat gold and research as twice as valuable as culture and espionage. +50% research might be a bit much (considering the later laboratory only gives +25% and the early Korean UB gives +10% research as its bonus. Going to 50% seems like a jump). I think 25% as a bonus would still be very good, and following in civ logic would be around equal to the +50% culture bonus Brazil gets. I'm only cautious about it though and can't decide if it is too much or not so I guess I'm really no help.
 
I also just realized that if you did Champlain and Trudeau, they'd both be French Canadians. Are you using Adams for anyone? Thomaswar used him as an older MacDonald, and it was a pretty good likeness. That'd get you an earlier British Canadian leader and a later French Canadian one.
 
I think all of the UBs and UU are pretty good and balanced.

The only thing I'm cautious about is the Microwave Station. On the one hand it is late game so it should be stronger, then again civ seems to treat gold and research as twice as valuable as culture and espionage. +50% research might be a bit much (considering the later laboratory only gives +25% and the early Korean UB gives +10% research as its bonus. Going to 50% seems like a jump). I think 25% as a bonus would still be very good, and following in civ logic would be around equal to the +50% culture bonus Brazil gets. I'm only cautious about it though and can't decide if it is too much or not so I guess I'm really no help.

I agree, I'll bump the science down to 25%. Good call on that one.

That said, here is part 2 of the Americas module pack preview/suggestion posts...'

CUBA
Starts with Fishing and Mining

Leaders:
  • Jose Marti - Philosophical/Organized
  • Fidel Castro - Charismatic/Protective

UB:
Casino, replaces Theatre
  • +50% Foreign :traderoute: yield
  • +1 :) per 10% :culture: rate
  • Can turn 2 citizens into artist
  • Can turn 1 citizen into merchant
  • +1 :) from dye, gold, silver
  • Double production speed for Charismatic leaders

UU:
Mambise, replaces Cavalry
  • Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
  • Can withdraw from combat (30% chance)
  • +75% attack v. Rifleman
  • +50 attack v. Cannon
  • Flank attack v. Cannon
  • Starts with Amphibious



GRAN COLOMBIA (Venzuela, Peru, Colombia)
Starts with Hunting and Fishing

Leaders:
  • Simon Bolivar - Aggressive/Protective
  • Hugo Chavez - Philosophical/Charismatic

UB:
Congress House, replaces Courthouse
  • +2 :espionage:
  • -75% maintenance
  • -50% War weariness
  • Can turn 2 citizens into Spy
  • Double production speed for Philosophical leaders

UU:
Libertador, replaces Heavy Horseman (Cuirassier)
  • Immune to first strikes
  • Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
  • Can withdraw from combat (15% chance)
  • +25% city attack
  • Flank attack against catapult, trebuchet, and cannon



MEXICO
Starts with Agriculture and Mining

Leaders:
  • Father Hidalgo - Philosophical/Creative
  • Santa Anna - Aggressive/Charismatic

UB:
Zocalo, replaces Colosseum
  • -50% War weariness
  • +1 :) per 20% :culture: rate
  • Can turn 1 citizen into Artist
  • Double production speed for Creative leaders

UU:
Villista, replaces cavalry
  • Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
  • Ignores terrain movement costs
  • Can withdraw from combat (30% chance)
  • +50% attack v. Rifleman
  • +50% attack v. Cannon
  • Starts with Pinch

So again, I'd really like to get some feedback (or at least the green light) before I put the modules out. That way I don't have to recall it and put it out a second time. So if you read this I'd appreciate SOME feedback, even if its only to say you think its fine.
 
hey I have a problem with Nubia the civ from your first module pack
for some reason it's incomplete and cannot be loaded
any idea why?
 
hey I have a problem with Nubia the civ from your first module pack
for some reason it's incomplete and cannot be loaded
any idea why?

You were able to load up all of the other civs but not Nubia? That's odd becuase I used the same template for Nubia as I did for the other civs.

Are you sure you have it in the right file structure? Could you please type out what folder you have it in?

as in.... beyondthesword/mods/diplomacy/assets/modules/nubia...

In fact that is how it should be.
 
You were able to load up all of the other civs but not Nubia? That's odd becuase I used the same template for Nubia as I did for the other civs.

Are you sure you have it in the right file structure? Could you please type out what folder you have it in?

as in.... beyondthesword/mods/diplomacy/assets/modules/nubia...

In fact that is how it should be.

it's in the right file
phoenicia and hungary work fine but nubia and the teutonic order don't
it's not that bad if it cannot be fixed because the mod itself is already really great but if you have an answer I'd love to hear it
 
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