Spy or Diplomat ?

brewgod

brewgod

Prince
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
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Hello Fellow Die Hard Civ 5 Fans:

I am playing on Prince and will soon move up a level. I am looking at playing as Brazil for a few games and wanted to have some input from you all. When it comes to your spies...playing as Brazil and going for a Cultural Victory is it best to use them as Diplomats in other capitols?

Thanks

Brew God
 
Spy is for stealing tech. If you have a big tech lead, a spy is useless except to protect your capital.

If you are behind in tech a spy is required.

A Diplomat will occasionally "discover intrigue" one AI plotting against another. If you share that intrigue you get a minor friendly bump.
 
Yes ... I understand the spy part. Yet don't you get a bump in tourism or culture if you use your spy as a Diplomat. So I am asking do you really get a bump ahead using a Diplomat if you are going for a Cultural Victory.

Brew God
 
If you're playing as Brazil you're probably going for a cultural victory. Certain World Congress resultions can help you out. Diplomats can help you bribe other civs to vote for those resolutions you want.

But yeah, if you're behind, use spies to steal tech first.
 
well...
as soon as you are upfront in tech, spies become useless... before, its one of the most effective way to catch up... 2 spies on the top 2 civ in tech can be enourmous!

Then it depends... I f you are going for culture victory, Dilpomat will increase the influnce you have on a civ... also, once globalisation is discovered, it will give you an extra vote in congress per foreight capital where you have a diplomat. It can really help you to pass or repeal stuff you that would really change the game.

Diplomat also (dont ask me the mechanic, I dont know) favorise better relationship... if you are aiming at a peacefull victory, it might help.

Using them as spies in CS is also key part of the game. By having a spy stationed in a CS that is strategical for you, no if it sfor geographical positionning or simply because of what it provides you (read units) can sa ve you lots of money down the line.

All in all... both have their reasons to be. Just have to use them accordingly to your strategy.
 
brewgod said:
Yes ... I understand the spy part. Yet don't you get a bump in tourism or culture if you use your spy as a Diplomat. So I am asking do you really get a bump ahead using a Diplomat if you are going for a Cultural Victory.
Click to expand...

You definitely do, I believe it's a 25% tourism boost to the civ - when you look at the cultural victory screen (i.e. where it tells you if you are influential or not, and whether your influence is rising, etc.), mouse over the percentage, and it'll show it.

However, I think it only happens in later eras - i.e. putting a diplomat in a capital in the renaissance won't do anything but allow you to trade world congress votes.
 
Playing peaceful, you can always send spies to the warmongers just so you can get intrigue to share with every one else to get a diplomatic boost. On Prince you don't have to work very hard to get the tech lead so they won't be very useful as spies for much else.
 
tpac said:
You definitely do, I believe it's a 25% tourism boost to the civ - when you look at the cultural victory screen (i.e. where it tells you if you are influential or not, and whether your influence is rising, etc.), mouse over the percentage, and it'll show it.
Click to expand...

Like I said in the post directly above yours, it's a 25% bonus to someone of a different Ideology (to counter the 33% penalty) and a 0% bonus to someone of the same Ideology.
 
Checking the Demographics tab and the trade screen will allow you to determine if you are the tech leader or not. If there are techs to steal you should try to steal them, especially if they are the cheap techs as you'll get a level 3 spy quickly. If you are the tech leader with no techs to steal your spy should be in your capital, but you're trusting to the RNG as whether your spy will level up or not.
Diplomats pre ideology have the benefit of spying on your target without the risk of being killed, with the added bonus of being able to buy votes from that civ. If you plan to propose an unwelcome first proposal at the WC diplomats are required and your spy should be put in as a diplomat in the first friendly capital as soon as you get it in preparation.
 
I use spies as spies until I'm on even tech terms. Then, once ideologies rolls out, if you're going culture, send diplomats to civs of different ideologies, otherwise, bring them over to city states you want flipped over to your control. Take care not to overuse them, if your influence is in the high 100s, chances are, they're gonna stay your ally for a while, unless they coup it I guess
 
KingKong76 said:
By having a spy stationed in a CS that is strategical for you, no if it's for geographical positioning or simply because of what it provides you (read units) can save you lots of money down the line.
Click to expand...

Can you please explain, what "provides you (read units)" means?
 
Poor OP never got a solid answer :(

If you're behind on tech, you want to spy on the technological leaders. This is true. If you are the technological leader, having your first spy in your capital is a good idea.

Apart from that, you can use Diplomats to increase your effective tourism vs that civ. Not just if you're going for a culture victory. Not just once (specific) ideologies come into play. All of this and so much more is explained and demonstrated here:

https://youtu.be/HvgyqhmoRCw
 
There is also an odd benefit of Diplomats

SELL YOUR VOTES for WC when you planned on voting on it ANYWAY! lol

Most of the times I propose International Games or World Fair and then get PAID to vote for my own resolution!

This money then goes to City States which gets me MORE VOTES to then SELL TO MORE AIs.

Does anyone see a pattern? lol.

But otherwise I usually Tech Steal Renaissance and such. Make sure to move your spy a lot so it doesnt get killed.

Also if I really like a City State (Maritime or Cultural - I will just leave a spy there for some turns.
 
To do that the AI needs to have a diplomat in your capital, you don't need diplomats in their capital.
 
Diplomats: I only use those when seeking Diplomatic victory. (extra votes with Globalism)

Spies: With a tech lead, all but the one in my capital for defense against spies are in city states for rigging elections / couping my allies back when the AI spends cash on them.
 
GKShaman said:
This money then goes to City States which gets me MORE VOTES to then SELL TO MORE AIs
Click to expand...
You can't sell CS votes; you can only ever buy and sell core delegation votes, which is why you can't sell votes to multiple civs at the same time. And as already mentioned, it's only necessary to have a Diplomat to buy WC votes, not to sell them.
 
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