National Wonder Elimination Thread

Circus Maximus 18
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 14
Ironworks 22
National College 25
National Epic 20
National Treasury 8
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 14

National College: I build it in every game, not always right away, but always earlyish. Essential to keep pace if you have any sort of crowding on the map or happiness issues.

National Intelligence Agency: Really? Come on guys, MAYBE if I have only 3 cities in the late game and I am going for a cultural victory, on anything but small maps this makes no sense to me.
 
Circus Maximus 18
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 14
Ironworks 23 (+1)
National College 25
National Epic 20
National Treasury 8
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12 (-2)

Nia? If you want to stop tech stealing just build The Great Firewall
 
Circus Maximus 18
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 14
Ironworks 23
National College 25
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 13

NT - I still don't build this one very often and doesn't give enough to justify.

NIA - This wonder isn't about preventing folks from stealing tech from you as some folks seem to think. This wonder gives you 1 extra spy and promotes all your spies by 1 level. So it makes it easier for you to steal techs, gather intrigue, rig elections, perform coups and kill enemy spies.
 
Circus Maximus 16
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 14
Ironworks 23
National College 26
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 13

This is very difficult, because I like all of these :p

National College: Necessary. If I had to pick any of these that I absolutely had to build, it would be the NC.
Circus Maximus: Better in vanilla. Happiness is not as much of an issue now.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 12
Ironworks 23
National College 26
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 13

Circus Maximus gets a + because happiness and money are things I'm usually struggling with (trying to use religion to offset this in current games) and the circuses are maintenance free while providing a happiness boost. Win-win!

Dropping Heroic Epic as its typically the last one I'll build if I don't get it early. Usually have a couple of cities that are lagging behind and can't manage to prioritize barracks.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 10 (-2)
Ironworks 23
National College 27 (+1)
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 13

National College is the first and most important national wonder I build each game.

Heroic Epic is often put off until much later in the game. Even when I war monger, I find it difficult to build a Barracks in every city early in the game.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 8 (-2)
Ironworks 23
National College 27
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 14 (+1)

I agree with Monthar. If you find yourself behind a bit or with a lot of unpromoted spies, this can work wonders for you (excuse the pun).

Heroic Epic...only good if you OCC. That's the only way I could see that happening.
 
OmniPotent42 said:
Just because they have different uses for different victory conditions doesn't make it unrateable. Everyone knows Korea and Babylon are science civs, just like how NC and Oxford are science national wonders, and people don't say "Oh, Babylon is going to be best because everyone loves science".
Click to expand...

Actually this is exactly what people have been saying on the Civ elimination thread, plus everyone who votes for it votes down Korea or vice versa on the basis that one is perceived to be the better science civ than the other (for some reason the Maya are being ignored altogether in the comparison).

Off topic, Korea is of course the best science civ...
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 20
Heroic Epic 8
Ironworks 24
National College 27
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

IW : If i stay at 5-6 cities from my own and go for a peaceful victory i will build this.

NIA : IW is way better than this one...spies only serve for cs when you know how to tech properly.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 8
Ironworks 24
National College 28
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

NC - +50% science, nuff said.
Hermitage - +50% culture is great if you're focusing on culture, but if you're not you probably aren't producing enough culture to make the boost worth the effort.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 6
Ironworks 24
National College 29
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

NC is a must-build every single game, no question. Can't say the same about any of the others.

Heroic Epic, nope. Rarely ever build it honestly, even in war-heavy games there are just too many other things to worry about.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 4
Ironworks 24
National College 30
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

NC: If I could only build one national wonder, I think that 99% of the time I would pick the NC. And that 1% might be a measurement error haha :p

Heroic Epic: While this can be powerful, it is pretty rare that I build it, even when warmongering. I try to build it as China, because then units get a base 45% bonus when a GG is near, and that's hard to counter. But even then, this is less useful than NC/IW.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 2
Ironworks 24
National College 31
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

While the Heroic Epic is nice, especially in warmonger games, I still generally only have 2-3 cities producing units and don't build barracks until I legitimately have nothing to build. The only time I really prioritize it is if I want a quick rush.

Early NC is just so good, especially when playing on anything higher than Prince. Putting it in your GL city is bonkers early in the game. Plus it's not only on the path, but helps to reach Theology quicker with my Mayans :D
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 0
Ironworks 24
National College 31
National Epic 20
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

Heroic Epic is done. As others have said, usually limit troop production to a couple of cities and often have other priorities like science...

Oxford for the free tech. No need to justify this one, its academic ;)
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 2
Ironworks 24
National College 32 (+1)
National Epic 18 (-2)
National Treasury 6
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

National College, always the first and most important national wonder built every game.

Nation Epic is easy to put off, or sometimes not build at all. Even when warmongering, I don't always get the required Barracks in every city concentrating instead on building units from one or two cities while continuing to build improvements in the others.
 
Circus Maximus 17
Hermitage 18
Heroic Epic 0
Ironworks 24
National College 32
National Epic 18
National Treasury 7
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

I do build the NT at some occasions. But never the Heroic Epic. Even for domination games(where speed is so important) it's not optimal to throw hammers into this thing.
 
Tabarnak, Heroic Epic was already out. Looks like Mesix was going to downvote it (from the description he gave of the National Epic), noticed it was already dead and changed his vote to NE, but forgot to take HE off. So, you get to minus something else :p

Circus Maximus 15
Hermitage 18
Ironworks 24
National College 33
National Epic 18
National Treasury 7
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

Toughie, but I'll downgrade the Circus Maximus again, since religion and mercantile CS alleviate happiness problems in G&K.

National College gets another upvote. All the other national wonders are competing for spot #2.
 
Circus Maximus 15
Hermitage 18
Ironworks 25
National College 33
National Epic 18
National Treasury 5
Oxford University 24
National Intelligence Agency 12

Ironworks is great to help build everything.
8 gold is good, but it's nothing special. It should be like NC, 50% and +3 Gold.
 
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