Chu-Ko-Nu useless?

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Ceterius

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Chu-Ko-Nus have a much lower ranged combat strength than crossbowmen, and they cannot benefit from the logistics promotion.

Normally, I get 4 archers with logistics in any game on Epic or Marathon. Not getting Logistics as the 4th promotion is a bad idea even as China since it doubles the effectiveness and EXP gain rate of archers. Logistics Archers promoted to Chu-Ko-Nus are worse than normal crossbowmen.

Chu-Ko-Nus would be useful if you use catapults or don't fight classical era wars. But who does that?
 
Ceterius said:
Chu-Ko-Nus have a much lower ranged combat strength than crossbowmen, and they cannot benefit from the logistics promotion.

Normally, I get 4 archers with logistics in any game on Epic or Marathon. Not getting Logistics as the 4th promotion is a bad idea even as China since it doubles the effectiveness and EXP gain rate of archers. Logistics Archers promoted to Chu-Ko-Nus are worse than normal crossbowmen.

Chu-Ko-Nus would be useful if you use catapults or don't fight classical era wars. But who does that?
Click to expand...

Try using the unit in question first.
 
Yes a Logistics Archer upgraded to a Chu-Ko-Nu would be weaker since it would only have 11 combat Strength than the 15 Combat Strength a Crossbow gets but after this you logic is flawed.

A newly build Chu-Ko-Nu will gain exp double that of a normal Crossbow since they can attack twice.

Since they attack twice the 11 Ranged shot twice every turn or shoot and run which can be very powerful in a defensive position.

I know player build 4-6 archers in Ancient and Classical. Depending on the size of your Medieval Empire 10-12 Chu-Ko-Nu for defense and invasion should be necessary.
I like to have a defense force so I don't have to pull back my invasion to defend a counter attack.
 
One other poin though- a chuk-ko-Nu may have less fire power. However if you are firing to kill an enemy unit that has been damaged, you don't always need total firepower. If the enemy unit has been sufficiently damaged you just need to destroy it so it can't use the "reheal" capability.

In other words, you may not need a firepower of 15 when 11 will do.
 
chgrogers said:
Yes a Logistics Archer upgraded to a Chu-Ko-Nu would be weaker since it would only have 11 combat Strength than the 15 Combat Strength a Crossbow gets but after this you logic is flawed.

A newly build Chu-Ko-Nu will gain exp double that of a normal Crossbow since they can attack twice.

Since they attack twice the 11 Ranged shot twice every turn or shoot and run which can be very powerful in a defensive position.

I know player build 4-6 archers in Ancient and Classical. Depending on the size of your Medieval Empire 10-12 Chu-Ko-Nu for defense and invasion should be necessary.
I like to have a defense force so I don't have to pull back my invasion to defend a counter attack.
Click to expand...
But the Chu-Ko-Nu upgrade path is a dead end. I would build Trebuchets in the Medieval period because they will upgrade to Cannons and Artillery.
 
Note: Accuracy + Barrage bonus will apply to melee units, but they dont provide access to melee promotions. Also a well upgrade CKN can still be effective in the Renaissance.
 
jerbacca78 said:
Note: Accuracy + Barrage bonus will apply to melee units, but they dont provide access to melee promotions. Also a well upgrade CKN can still be effective in the Renaissance.
Click to expand...

Accuracy and barrage actually don't give melee units a combat bonus, even though they appear on the combat bar as modifiers.
 
MadDjinn said:
works perfectly without it as well.

It's the 2x attacks you want. The fact that you can also start it with Siege is just a bonus (archer units get to Siege before melee units)
Click to expand...
You need Accuracy or Barrage to get Siege so you miss +20% terrain bonus if you don't have Promotion Saving.
 
Yes but now you have a rifle that attacks twice per turn and +25% vs cities (with only 30xp used) - Where can I get me one of those? Rifles dont come out-of-the-box like that.
 
You don't always have the iron for Trebuchets which makes Chu-Ko-Nu a good alternative for attacking cities. Aside from that they do pretty good damage even to riflemen and instead of getting the logistics promotion you can give the Chu-Ko-Nu additional range which also comes pretty handy.
 
Yeah, I have to disagree with the OP. The fact that it shoots twice is pretty good in itself. One or two wasted promotions is worth getting this ability for the rest of the game....and would probably just be worth it for the war(s) you could fight in the late medieval period. Two shots at 2/3 strength is much better than one at 100%.
 
Ceterius said:
That works best if you play with Promotion Saving.
Click to expand...

Or build your Chu-Ko-Nu in a city without a barracks and you don't have to use any promotions. I've sold a barracks before so I can build Chu-Ko-Nu with no XP that I was planning on upgrading. In this regard Chu-Ko-Nus are better than LongBows because LongBows start with range which gets you nothing on an upgrade.

And any ranged units that starts with free logistics is a plus in my book. You just have to plan ahead and don't give your archers the logistics promo (I don't think I've ever gotten an archer to the 4th upgrade before crossbows were available especially when I play as China I prioritize getting them early).

By your logic Arty would be useless as well because if you give cannons indirect fire that promotion is lost when they upgrade because arty gets that promo free.
 
Rifles with double attack are quite powerful, yes, but I tend to be overly aggressive with them and they die early. Now if they have the Heal after every turn promotion then I tend to keep them around much longer.
 
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