The City States of Greece

The Eurotas is Greek territory by will of the gods. We must not shirk our divinely ordained responsibility. We must not back down in the face of this barbarian aggression.
 
Indeed, tis unnaceptable to allow the sacred Eurotas, territory rightfully greek by the will of the gods, as epxressed in the lively oracles of Agamemnon Megakyrios, to come under Japanese dominion.

Anyways on other matters I am accepting proposal from the nobility in regards to leading the settler group to found a new city. I will choose the proposal I like the most from amongst those offers. I note to those who would consider applying that the most grovelling and subservient proposal for the relations between the new city and Athens is not necessarily the one I will favour the most.
 
RP AND RELIGION

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The Archon sat at the shrine of Athena, and prayed. For war with Japan seemed ever more likely and the peace of the gods, and the promise of the sacred Eurotas to the greek people seemed ever more likely to slip from his peoples grasp forever.

Falling into deep meditation the Archon slowly detached himself from the sounds of the priests, of the supplicants at the shrine, and even of the wind and the birds. Into total silence he fell until... until he heard a music more beautiful than any he had heard before. At this sound the Archon opened his eyes... and beheld the goddess.

The great Athena clad in golden helm and wielding a spear of burnished bronze, like a coppery flame girt upon a great lance, stood before him in majesty, and all around him was the heaven of Olympus, shining like a jewel in the aether, resplendent beyond all compare.

and Athena spoke.

"Oh Pericle, steward of my city, I have heard thy prayers. Come unto me, enter into my light and I shalt give answer to your prayers and grant you the knowledge to make known unto all the wisdom of the gods.

For you are the child of my father, oh divine Megakyrios, and it is through you that the light of Olympus shall be revealed to all"


And the Archon took hold of the hand of Athena, and recieved knowledge from the goddess of wisdom. Knowledge of war, knowledge of governance and knowledge of the will of the divine. And after an eternity and an instant the light dimmed and Athena spoke again.

"Bring the wisdom of Olympus to the Athenians, and know that the gods stand with you in all your endeavours so long as you remain faithful, and uphold the order between man and heaven"

and with that the Archon opened his eyes, and rejoiced as the priests listened to his words and hailed the glory of the gods and proceeded to proclaim what he had learnt to all who would listen.

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DODEKATHEISM

Spoiler :

DODEKATHEISM

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Basics

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The religion of the Greeks, Dodekatheism is a pluralistic religion in which many localised popular cults can coexist within the main Divine Faith (also known as the civil religion) which all dodekatheists follow. The Divine Faith posits the existence of a myriad of gods and goddesses, in which twelve reign supreme over the world and the other lesser gods as the Olympians, who reside in the heaven of Olympus.
These twelve deities are : Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Apollo, Artemis, Aphrodite, Ares, Dionysus, Hephaestus, Athena, Hermes, Demeter, Hestia and Hera who each have their own sphere and responsibilities within the pantheon (gods and their spheres are the same as the classical Greek pantheon) in addition to providing patronage over cities and even individuals (where the individual deity is particularly important). There are also lesser gods like Pan, god of the forests and patron of shepherds and a myriad of local nature spirits who are associated with specific locations such as rivers and caves. The Dodekatheists believe that these gods must be appeased and propitiated and that participation in the sacred rites is a civic duty. They also believe the gods can be asked for favors to benefit the faithful.

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Fundamental Features

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:Orthopraxy

Dodekatheism holds that the gods must be appeased and can bring wrath and suffering if the correct rites are not carried out, as such correct practice of the rites is of supreme importance (Orthopraxy). As such the belief is that it is ones civil duty to participate within these rites, which consist of the civil religion which all Dodekatheists practice, lest the gods bring suffering on the community.

: Plurality

Dodekatheism due to its nature as a polytheistic religion is pluralistic, and accepts the coexistence within the bounds of the civil religion of local cults, mystery cults and philosophical sects so long as their adherents continue to uphold and practice the rites and beliefs of the Divine Faith and so long as the teachings of these local cults does not contradict the fundamental doctrines of Dodekatheism. In Dodekatheism one in addition to practicing the civil religion, can be a member of a local cult to a specific god, or a mystery cult or even hold to many such cults so long as the civil religion continues to be upheld alongside and with it.

:Morality

Dodekatheism is focused more on orthopraxy (civil religion) and on personal religious experience (particularly through popular cults) than on monolithic moral beliefs. However certain actions are considered abominations before the gods and are believed to invoke divine wrath. These include patricide, cannibalism and sacrilege. A more general moral theme is fear of committing hubris and of taking things to excess with them becoming vice, moderation is a principle virtue. Beyond these things the civil religion is not so focused on morality, although local cults may have their own standards in addition to that of the universal civil religion. Orthopraxy and pious adherence to the sacred rites of civil religion is considered essential in order to appease the gods. Not practicing the rites is considered tantamount to treason against the community as it is risking the wrath of the gods.

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The Divine Faith

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The Divine Faith (aka Civil religion), often simply known by no other name than Dodekatheism is the obligatory and universal civil cult and the general and universal form of the religion practiced wherever Dodekatheism is to be found. The civil religion consists of rituals (sacrifice, oblations, libations and sacred chants) and teachings considered universal in Dodekatheism and that exist in order to ensure the benevolence of the gods. In order to ensure orthopraxy the civil religion has an organized structure which is as follows.

Great Hierarch

The great hierarch is the first amongst equals amongst the hierarchs of the Hellenic city-states. He has all the privileges and duties of a hierarch in his own city in addition to being responsible for mediating disputes between hierarchs, and determining when a cult is questionable whether it is within the bounds of Dodekatheism. The position is hereditary

Hierarchs

Responsible for maintaining and organizing the sacred rites in his polis and for governing the local Hieroi (priests) of the civil religion. He is responsible for ensuring orthopraxy amongst the population. The means of succession of a Hierach of a polis (excepting the great hierarch) is determined locally. A new city’s first Hierarch is appointed by the hierarch of that new cities mother city whereupon the new cities hierarch determines the city hierarchy’s succession arrangements.

Lower Religious

Below the hierarchs consists of priests and priestesses of the gods who run local shrines and temples, holy men who live lives of ascetic devotion to the gods and live on donations often retreating to wilderness to pray, and the mysterious oracles who are believed to be mouthpieces for the gods.

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Local Cults

Subsumed within Dodekatheism are many local cults, mystery religions and philosophical religions that are practiced alongside and with the civil religion and can be quite different from each other in focus and in specific teaching. These cults focus more on devotion to a specific deity, mystical and ecstatic enlightenment and personal experience where the civil religion (followed by all) focused on the necessary sacred rituals, essential and universal teaching and on maintaining the harmony between man and the gods. The members of these cults therefore practice the civil religion with everyone else in addition to engaging in the mysteries of their local expressions of religiosity with their own particular teachings in addition to the civil religion and their own expression of divine worship. It is also possible to practice multiple local cults in addition to the ubiquitous civil religion.

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Heirophants

a term used to refer to the leaders of various unique cults within the dodekatheist religion. Each individual cult is want to have a unique structure according to the dictates of its founder, whether that be a single heirophant serving as master of a sect, or whether it be a college of many heirophants working together to discern the mysteries of the divine and unveil them to their disciples. Some local cults may even lack an organised leadership at all!


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On that day was established the organised Dodekatheist religion, gathering together all the shrines of the gods under the patronage of the Archon as Great Hierarch of the gods. Missionaries were sent forth througout athens to proclaim the unification of the hellenic religion under the Archon. In the light of the divine revelation the Archon also ordained an inclusion in the Syntagma on the role of religion in government saying.

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INCLUSION INTO THE SYNTAGMA

Spoiler :
What role does religion have in the Athenian Government?

The Dodekatheist religion as the revealed form the traditional hellenic religion is the religion of the Athenian State. Its great rituals and festivals are to be held as holy, and given over to the worship of the gods and for the public participation in the necessary rites. The devotional cults within the Dodekatheist religoin must seek the approval of the Archon to be permitted in Athens, all foreign cults must seek the approval of the Archon to be practiced.
 
Word filtered though the city. The Archon had been blessed by divine revelation! Phillipos made his way to the palace, a pair of burly slaves forcing a passage through the increasing crowds to allow their master to stand at the front of the throng.
The Archon had already begun speaking.
"....revealed herself to me and granted me knowledge of the will of the gods. As such I have begun codifying the worship of those who dwell on Olympus and amended the syntagma accordingly. I also name myself Great Hierarch of the Greek people. In the coming weeks I shall be announcing some changes so that the gods may be better honoured. Most immediately it is a requirement for all citizens to do honour to the gods, most especially our lady Athena."

The Archon retreated into the palace, followed by Phillipos. The guards made a move to deny Phillipos access but backed down once they recognised him. He caught up with the Archon at the entrance to his private chamber.
"What can I do for you, Phillipos?" asked Pericles
"In light of your announcement I thought it would be a good time to reveal a concept I have been developing for a while to strengthen the bonds of the citizenry in the face of barbarian agitation," replied Phillipos, "an annual religious festival that all citizens of Athens shall participate in. I refer to it as the Panathenaea."
"Tell me of it," enquired the Archon
"The festival shall be held over three days. All aspects of the ritual shall be carried out or culminate in front of the patrons statue. On the first day the wisdom of Athena shall be celebrated with contests of poetry and music. On the second day her strength shall be celebrated with races and contests of martial skill. On the third day sacrifices shall be made to her and a great feast shall be held to celebrate her patronage. Every fourth year the women of the city shall weave a great robe for her statue over the period of the festival which shall be extended by four days for further contests and feasting. The festival of the fourth years shall be known as the Grand Panathenaea and on the final day a procession will be held through the streets to display the sacred robe to the people of the city before the statue is clothed in it and the sacrifices begin."
"I will consider your proposal." said the Archon.
 
This Japanese conflict will be a stern test of our mighty Archon and the noble houses. We the sun burnt plebs must accept our fate as usual. let us hope the divine revelation of Athena will guide our Archon wisely.

A festival in honor of Athena would give the plebs welcome respite from their daily toil, and might curry the favor of the gods. the great noble Phillipos is truly brilliant to have developed such an original idea.
 
Why do i think that the system of this game favors only those who joined first, and those who write stories, while all the rest wait 1,000 turns until they are born and dont have a chance to go at the top?
 
Why do i think that the system of this game favors only those who joined first, and those who write stories, while all the rest wait 1,000 turns until they are born and dont have a chance to go at the top?

Because it does. However, everyone has "a chance", just not necessarily a big one and there is nothing stopping you writing stories to get you on the ladder. By the time we hit the third city I suspect nearly everyone on the list will be in the game. It may well be that prestige awards will increase in later eras to dilute the early starters advantage in that respect.
 
Well a late starter player will just have no chance to even try to go at the top of the power and the game will die.

Also one thing that gets on my nerve is that in this game you gain prestige for writing stories and not for you in-game actions. So the people who cant really write a story and start later will have a huge disadvantage.

Of course this could be fixed, but the main problem is that player to be born, he must wait 1,000 turns and gets bored. I haven't watched the thread since the second update. I dont even know what happens. The only thing i know is that ( once more) Jehoshua rules.
 
Well a late starter player will just have no chance to even try to go at the top of the power and the game will die.

Also one thing that gets on my nerve is that in this game you gain prestige for writing stories and not for you in-game actions. So the people who cant really write a story and start later will have a huge disadvantage.

Of course this could be fixed, but the main problem is that player to be born, he must wait 1,000 turns and gets bored. I haven't watched the thread since the second update. I dont even know what happens. The only thing i know is that ( once more) Jehoshua rules.

OOC: Dot80 addressed this. In game actions give way more prestige than stories. Ithose of us writing stories are competing for table scraps.
 
I rule for now. Considering that new cities will be independent city-states the current one-man rule of all greece is likely to be a thing of the past short order. This being especially so considering I have no intent on interfering with the internal affairs of cities beyond the state of Athens. Ergo the equation is that more cities emerge, the less power any individual has over the greater whole of Hellas due to the dispersion of power inherent within the structure of the game. This also gives later starters more chance of rising to power compared to say, in GaP where there was a centralised system. Overall I predict a power structure more like Yahzuk's CotE, where the rulers of the cities held effective power without a single ruler clearly dominating the entire state.

Furthermore I note that as soon as we get a second city the rate of population will increase substantially (even more so with the worker improving tiles now) hastening the emergence of people into the game where at the beginning it was rather slow. Also I would concur with FN in saying that Prestige gains are likely to increase later in the game to compensate the later starters for their bad luck in signing on later.
 
OOC: I guess Athens suboptimal food resources might advantage players that rule another city. The ruler of the second and third cities might eventually be able to compete if the placement is optimal. If war with the Japanese causes Athens to miss the Hanging Gardens, I think it can be eclipsed. Of course a maritime CS strategy would favor Athens as well. Athens seems like it can be a great cultural capital, but rather ordinary at everything else.

Also, is it too much to dream of conquering Japan? Two or three Greek cities plus Kyoto would have all of us living the noble dream pretty quickly. I actually favor the wise Archon's settlement strategy now b/c of the horses showing up. If we could attack with archers hoplites and companion cavalry, and if the Japanese have no iron, I think we can take them.

Then again, I am not a great CiV player. What do others think of the possibility of military success against the Japanese at this point? A sneak attack on that general would be cool. A sneak attack on that settler would be even cooler.
 
Anybody mind informing of the amount of units we have?Anyway, without spearmen (Hoplites in our case, which is a lot better) there is little chance to conquer cities but with heavy ranged support or a huge amount of units. And we have neither, AFAIK.

3 Hoplites and 2 Companions would be enough to bring Japan to its knees. Put 5 and 3 to do it without any losses at all. (If they have 2 cities)
 
Anybody mind informing of the amount of units we have?Anyway, without spearmen (Hoplites in our case, which is a lot better) there is little chance to conquer cities but with heavy ranged support or a huge amount of units. And we have neither, AFAIK.

3 Hoplites and 2 Companions would be enough to bring Japan to its knees. Put 5 and 3 to do it without any losses at all. (If they have 2 cities)

OOC: We have one warrior and one archer. Kyoto is on and immediately surrounded by flat land, with three flat tiles on the same east side of the river. If they are allied with the Polish, the approach would be much more difficult.

Our current units seem adequate to sneak attack and kill a general or maybe kidnap a settler if conditions are just right. Those two units could defend a second city until our better units show up too IMO. The Japanese are willing to expose their general to us, but could they be foolish enough to expose their settler to a combined warrior/archer attack?

Maybe Athena gave the mighty Archon a brilliant strategy for negotiations or other RP actions that can give us a leg up. Otherwise things look rough.
 
They certainly can be foolish enough :)

But if their army's size are unknown, we better not risk it. we certainly could defend a city, but we might end up wiped out if they're strong enough to take one city. We should certainly wait, our military is ridiculous and laughable at.

EDIT: Meh, their army must be tiny as well, we can risk it, but not attack their cities. BTW, we should explore the unknown zone directly north of Athens, there might be more luxuries or land...
 
Because it does. However, everyone has "a chance", just not necessarily a big one and there is nothing stopping you writing stories to get you on the ladder. By the time we hit the third city I suspect nearly everyone on the list will be in the game. It may well be that prestige awards will increase in later eras to dilute the early starters advantage in that respect.

Filli Is correct it does favor those who joined first. It is supposed to be somewhat random, and it was. I told no one when I was posting, I didn't control who saw the thread first. I realize the rules about birth are unpopular. I added it to the list of things to change, but I want to see how the game evolves with the rules as they currently are. In addition, I want to ease into the workload that there will be with 12 or so players all having their own families, actions, and movements. I'm sorry Christos if you have lost interest in the game, I don't know what to tell you. As filli said above, once we get to 3 cities most of the players will be in the game. Also, I have to tried to make the structure one that will make it easier for players to have ample chance at their own power.

I also want to highlight the fact that those who write RP do have an advantage, and as more prestige is getting earned, the more will be awarded to those who write RP to help balance it. If you write RP that obviously took time (or you are just that talented that you can produce quality work in little time) then you will get RP points. So far here are the current standings in prestige:

Current Standings
Jehoshua - 109
Filli_Noctus - 39
Tambien - 37
Aaronious - 29
Mickzter - 17

As you can see Players in the game have larger prestige (and those on top much larger), but Aronious, for example, will have a much better starting point then those who don't RP. Also as we get further in with more technology there will be more chances for prestige. I'll admit I have been holding back a bit just because of all the players not yet in the game.

Well a late starter player will just have no chance to even try to go at the top of the power and the game will die.

Also one thing that gets on my nerve is that in this game you gain prestige for writing stories and not for you in-game actions. So the people who cant really write a story and start later will have a huge disadvantage.

Of course this could be fixed, but the main problem is that player to be born, he must wait 1,000 turns and gets bored. I haven't watched the thread since the second update. I dont even know what happens. The only thing i know is that ( once more) Jehoshua rules.

Well even if that were true GaP didn't die, and we all know the chances of someone being able to dislodge the triumvirate. In any case that is not true. The way the city states work it would be much easier to dissent than in that game. (This effect would have been augmented by the random player leader that you all did away with. I was surprised any on the waiting list would agree to that, accept for those who maybe have some connection to Jehoshua) Even if Jehoshua somehow worked a way to stitch together the city-states all under his rule, he'd have a hell of a time with it. There have only been 6 Sessions, and I usually summarize what happened each session in the Mid-Session and Conclusion Updates, which aren't even long. Not watching the thread is the players' fault and I can do nothing about that. On top of that I have started hastening along the process of new people being introduced. Though it was met with little appreciation.

Even if you were all in the game, I guarantee you would not all be having the most interesting experience ever; especially now when Jehoshua has such tight control over the city. Also Aaronious' point above is a good point. Other cities will have an advantage over Athens, and other players will have an advantage over those who are currently in the game. While they are all confined to a single city fighting each other for the top spot (though admittedly there is little fighting for it after Tambien's death), while you all get a chance to start in a new city, with a new population.

Edit: I also want to note to those in the game, and those soon to be in the game: As long as culture strength is high you can found a religion. Currently, though state endorsed, Jehoshua's religion would qualify as a cult. There is a chance that other cults (as long as they follow the general culture of Pagan Athens) could beat out his.
 
Story:

Soon a story will come. It will have to do about wars in the stars.
 
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