The Road to War - Ultimate Edition!

Dale and Fagan: i agree with you guys about the Luftwaffe over France and to an extent over Britian. but I think that the entire RAF (over britian included) being destroyed by October 1939 is somewhat hard to believe possible. espicially when one fifth of the Luftwaffes fighter where the infrior BF110s. And though tactically far suprior to the RAF the British had radar which gave them a huge advantage in directing aircraft.

Cough cough, German got radar too during ww2. :)

About radar a link that summarize the point during ww2:
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation history/WW2/radar in world war two.htm

...dont get me wrong though im not trying to be disrespecful, my knowledge of the Battle of Britian is likely far lesser than yours (I take more of an intrest in the Medditerranian and Pacific theatres)
Well Dale was more talking about the total air domination during the battle of France so during 1939/1940 there's no doubt the Luftwafe got the air domination.

I focused on the Battle of Britain which is after. The point is that during Battle of England Luftwafe had superiority but as Battle of England was on England, there Uk had many advantages. Hitler and Luftwafe commander changed too much their mind. Luftwafe had real success at some point of the Battle of England when suddenly Hitler changed again his mind.

But I agree that I exaggerated a bit because I was influenced by a recent reading. :)

Here the quote :
The climax of the Battle of Britain came on the 30th-31st August, 1940. The British lost 50 aircraft compared to the Germany's 41. The RAF were close to defeat but Adolf Hitler then changed his tactics and ordered the Luftwaffe to switch its attack from British airfields, factories and docks to civilian targets. This decision was the result of a bombing attack on Berlin that had been ordered by Charles Portal, the new head of Bomber Command.

And here is the link :
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWraf.htm

That said you are right I also doubt Luftwafe could have entirely destroyed the RAF. But it's not really the point, there was a constant production of new planes, something you haven't done in your game. :p
 
Just to add on above, because a German bomber drop bombs on London when they were under instruction not too (he drop them because the bombers couldn't return home with a full bombload so if they missed there target, they dropped them anyway) The RAF then lanuch a raid against Berlin which enraged Hitler that he ordered them to bomb British cities.

espicially when one fifth of the Luftwaffes fighter where the infrior BF110s

But the Hurricane which far outnumbered Spitfires were also inferior as well, Bf-109's out number Spitfires which one on one were just about equal except when diving, as the earlier models of the Spitfire cut out there engines during a dive.

If Hitler hadn't switched the emphasis of attack then things made have turned out differently, however remember that the Germans were using river barges as transports, the Royal Navy would have likely been thrown at the German landings plus by late Auguest Britain had retain some of it's strength after Dunkirk and had a defensive line right across the some of England. So a German invasion wasn't going to be easy, however they said that of France and that took six weeks!
 
Fagan and Joe Harker:
i agree w/ u guys like i said before.

im relatively sure radar was only very helpful when on the defensive, w/ the exeption of warning planes about an interception, the germans having radar while attempting to bomb britians airfields was not very helpful.

when talking about the 110 and the hurricane. the 110 was built for the purpose of escorting bombers, and proved almost as vulnerable as the bombers themselves. the 109s could only fly for 5 minutes over london or risk having to ditch into the channel.

also even if germany had countinued bombing airfields the causlties they would have taken would been extremely high. and dont forget that moral amongst luftwaffe bomber crews was low. some even dropping there bombs and turning for home at even the sight of enemy interceptors.
 
...
If Hitler hadn't switched the emphasis of attack then things made have turned out differently, however remember that the Germans were using river barges as transports, the Royal Navy would have likely been thrown at the German landings plus by late Auguest Britain had retain some of it's strength after Dunkirk and had a defensive line right across the some of England. So a German invasion wasn't going to be easy, however they said that of France and that took six weeks!
The invasion of England is another matter because England had total control of the sea. Eventually when Allies later did the invasion they did too much but just one number, 200000 Allies ships was involved. Even if England hadn't setup the bunker wall German had later, it's hard to imagine how German could have succeed without to have a strong control of the sea.

Fagan and Joe Harker:
im relatively sure radar was only very helpful when on the defensive, w/ the exeption of warning planes about an interception, the germans having radar while attempting to bomb britians airfields was not very helpful.
For sure, I don't know exactly when each setup a good radar system. i think Allies did it sooner, not sure.

Allies later found an important way to use radar for bombing not only for defending, in order to target and direct better the bombing. But during Battle of England Germans didn't used such thing, as far I know.

also even if germany had countinued bombing airfields the causlties they would have taken would been extremely high. and dont forget that moral amongst luftwaffe bomber crews was low. some even dropping there bombs and turning for home at even the sight of enemy interceptors.
Well later Allies had also bombing crew with a very low morale because of heavy loss. That doesn't avoid Allies doing major blows anyway.
 
7 & 9. Good ideas.

Yes, I always wondered why you didn't use South America at all in Historical mode. Also, why doesn't the Low Countries control the Belgian Congo?

Fortnight 2 August 1942 - Brazil DOW on Axis. (NOT JAPAN)

February 1945 Turkey DOW Germany/Italy, although they never actually did anything during the war so you may not choose to include it.

Fortnight 1 December 1941 Central America joins allies

Fortnight 2 May 1942 Mexico joins allies

Fortnight 2 March 1945 South America joins allies

Fortnight 1 March 1945 Arabia joins allies

Allied invaded persia at some point in 1941, I don't remember when exactly.

Is their a way to break a permament alliance through code? If so...

Fortnight 2 August 1944, Romania Leaves axis, Joins Allies
 
Europe 1936, Monarch, USSR:

Germany built enormous number of units but was unable to capture Krakow, as the Poles filled their last city with a huge number of units. I could have taken the city myself.

Huge number of game-breaking problems with AI: does not bombard or strike with its planes 99% of the time; does not know how to handle stack attack; cannot overpower tiny neighbour even when it has 50 tanks, 100 infantry and about 40 planes.

I had high hopes but I'm respectfully bowing out of playing this now, as the AI is much, much worse than in the previous beta versions.

:(
 
Yes, I always wondered why you didn't use South America at all in Historical mode. Also, why doesn't the Low Countries control the Belgian Congo?

Fortnight 2 August 1942 - Brazil DOW on Axis. (NOT JAPAN)

February 1945 Turkey DOW Germany/Italy, although they never actually did anything during the war so you may not choose to include it.

Fortnight 1 December 1941 Central America joins allies

Fortnight 2 May 1942 Mexico joins allies

Fortnight 2 March 1945 South America joins allies

Fortnight 1 March 1945 Arabia joins allies

Allied invaded persia at some point in 1941, I don't remember when exactly.

Is their a way to break a permament alliance through code? If so...

Fortnight 2 August 1944, Romania Leaves axis, Joins Allies

Awesome

It would make sense to leave out events that would be highly unlikely to have happened had WW2 turned out differently; e.g. Romania shouldn't be joining the allies if Germany has pushed back the Soviets to Siberia.

Or, the events could be triggered by something (like Vichy France) - maybe, for example, Turkey & Arabia join whichever team (Allies or Axis) is winning on their respective dates?
 
Dale this isn't something that needs fixed..but iv been noticing this..
Like in the civilopedia if you for example
click on a French Early Infantry..it says upgrades to Russian Improved Infantry..and things like that
Nothing big just felt I should say something:)
 
OK, combined arms stack attack in v1.1 is ... behaving strangely.

1) Air, naval, and artillery units can attack multiple times in the same turn, even if they have already used up their movement and even if they have already done bombardment.

2) "Delayed" city invasion: noticed it in amphibious assaults, ground unit attacks last unit defending in a city and defeats it... but does not move into the city. I have to click again to get it to move into the city. Other stack units do bombardment even if not selected.

3) Trouble with workers? If attacking workers (either in a city or even loitering in the countryside) from a stack, bombardment will also occur even though it should not -- and this can destroy terrain improvements which one might like to keep. And the attack is by a single unit selected FROM a stack, NOT by the entire stack -- yet the stack gets involved anyway. Similar trouble selecting an individual air unit for a mission (air strike) causes ALL of the air units to get involved, including injured ones which I otherwise might want to heal or units which I might want to use later in the turn elsewhere (blitzkrieg).
 
what folder exactly containts the thing to turn off bitter winter..I cant seem to find it..i went into XML folder and opened GlobalDefinesAlt with notepad..but dont see anything that relates to what you said to look for Dale in 1st post

Like Im just wondering what exact folder its in

any 1 know?
 
any 1 know?
It's in xml folder of RtW:

Beyond the Sword\Mods\The Road to War\Assets\XML\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml

In first lines of this file you should see:
<Define>
<DefineName>BITTER_WINTER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

If you don't have that, it's because you are using an older version like beta2 or older, this option is a new one.
 
Dale, please can you reupload beta 2, the AI in UE 1.1 is simply awful and I can't play it any more. :(
 
Awesome

It would make sense to leave out events that would be highly unlikely to have happened had WW2 turned out differently; e.g. Romania shouldn't be joining the allies if Germany has pushed back the Soviets to Siberia.

Or, the events could be triggered by something (like Vichy France) - maybe, for example, Turkey & Arabia join whichever team (Allies or Axis) is winning on their respective dates?
Not sure Turkish or Arabian will appreciate the detail! :D

But I agree some events would require a bit of fiction, for example:
- URSS doesn't make peace with Finland if Finland has less than three towns.
- Germany doesn't start war with USSR until they hold France. Once they Hold France, 2 month later they start War with USSR, it doesn't matter other conditions.
- If Germany hasn't yet started war with USSR then USSR starts war with Finland or Turkey :) in 1942, exact date to find.
- If Turkey has fallen and Germany hasn't yet started war with USSR then USSR starts war with British. :D
- If Finland has fallen then USSR starts war with Sweden and Norway.
 
Allies later found an important way to use radar for bombing not only for defending, in order to target and direct better the bombing. But during Battle of England Germans didn't used such thing, as far I know.

The Germans had a systems of radio beams, one would direct the bomber to the target and another one would cross at the point when the bombs needed to be dropped, the Allies employed a similar system when they started bombing Germany.
 
OK, combined arms stack attack in v1.1 is ... behaving strangely.

1) Air, naval, and artillery units can attack multiple times in the same turn, even if they have already used up their movement and even if they have already done bombardment.
I noticed that too and feel it unfair, not to mention that you can almost cheat by attacking one unit per one unit or by selecting a whole stack, you choose depending of what is best.

If the auto artillery attack is done only once per turn you could attempt go with only one unit, attack the pack and had enemy artillery that reply for their turn. Then you attack with other units that don't have to suffer the artillery reply. One solution, possibly complicate to do, would be to memorize units that already get attack by the artillery and let them safe from the artillery until next turn. That with attacking stack limited to units selected could work for me I think.

The concept is interesting but too tempting for almost cheating and gives too much importance to long range stuff that have already a major role.

2) "Delayed" city invasion: noticed it in amphibious assaults, ground unit attacks last unit defending in a city and defeats it... but does not move into the city. I have to click again to get it to move into the city. Other stack units do bombardment even if not selected.
It's not a delayed invasion nor is related to city invasion or ampphibious assault, that happens when you have you stack of unit near to unit you attack. It's because when you attack, artillery and other long range stuff like planes or ships will attack first. Then what happen is that the last unit you attacked is killed before you attack it, so your unit do nothing and the game let you move or not to the square you was attacking. I don't see bad that the game let you choose but often I regret lost the experience point from this sort of thing.

Similar trouble selecting an individual air unit for a mission (air strike) causes ALL of the air units to get involved, including injured ones which I otherwise might want to heal or units which I might want to use later in the turn elsewhere (blitzkrieg).
Strange I didn't noticed that problem.
 
I just played a full global assault game as the USA, and I love this mod even more. The bugs are mostly gone, so everyone doesn't start off backwards with zero tanks anymore when the wars actually start. China actually puts up a good fight now, though communist china--as well as finland--died early as usual, but that didn't impact the game much overall. The ai seems a bit more aggressive? Canada even made an attack on Nazi Norway, and put the northern coast under their control--it really surprised me. Italy is harder to kick out of Africa this time, but I still over-powered them by early 1943! I notice global warming is still on, which I still find real silly despite Dale's argument for it. Oh well... I guess I'll just have to go into WB now and then and correct this 'bug', you know, when desert wastelands spread around Berlin, Washington, and New York. (I'm surprised more aren't bothered by this.) :p

Oh yeah and the battle system seems a different? I couldn't pinpoint it, but suddenly having a stack of artillery with you helps things a lot. ;)
 
Not sure Turkish or Arabian will appreciate the detail! :D

But I agree some events would require a bit of fiction, for example:
- URSS doesn't make peace with Finland if Finland has less than three towns.
- Germany doesn't start war with USSR until they hold France. Once they Hold France, 2 month later they start War with USSR, it doesn't matter other conditions.
- If Germany hasn't yet started war with USSR then USSR starts war with Finland or Turkey :) in 1942, exact date to find.
- If Turkey has fallen and Germany hasn't yet started war with USSR then USSR starts war with British. :D
- If Finland has fallen then USSR starts war with Sweden and Norway.

Well, some of those things are stretching it a little bit. I'd say to make it like this...

-Operation Barbarossa will not trigger untill the next June after Vichy France trigger
-USSR will not make peace with Finland if it controls Oulu and Helsinki
-USSR Invades Germany July 6th 1941 (Operation Thunderstorm), if Barbarossa hasn't commenced. There is a great deal of historical evidence that the Soviets really were planning an invasion of Germany.
 
Well, some of those things are stretching it a little bit. I'd say to make it like this...

-Operation Barbarossa will not trigger untill the next June after Vichy France trigger
-USSR will not make peace with Finland if it controls Oulu and Helsinki
-USSR Invades Germany July 6th 1941 (Operation Thunderstorm), if Barbarossa hasn't commenced. There is a great deal of historical evidence that the Soviets really were planning an invasion of Germany.
Yes I see why your suggestion are more logical. Few remarks :

That Finland rule is dangerous even if more logical because it could happen that for some reason Finland controls all USSR but those 2 towns. I know few chance but better expect the unexpected.

I didn't knew anything about that hypothesis of thunderstorm, not many sources about it. Soviet Army in failure against Finland and attacking Germans? That seems weird. Another suspect point is how one month sooner USSR army was underprepared, for example with not that many Tanks build.

But yes your suggestion is interesting, it won't generate something very different as I was expecting but could include some nice sample events. In fact I was looking more for a bit of alternate history, a bit of science-fiction to add spice. :)
 
I just played a full global assault game as the USA, and I love this mod even more. The bugs are mostly gone, so everyone doesn't start off backwards with zero tanks anymore when the wars actually start.
I confirm this too.
...though communist china--as well as finland--died early as usual, but that didn't impact the game much overall.
In my games as Germans or French, in map Europe 39, Finland didn't lost a single town. Well not really surprising when I played Germans but much more surprising when I played French and see the brutality of the USSR attack on Germany with Tanks everywhere. (I don't complain the alternate history, in this game it was already an alternate history because France not only hadn't fall but also Norway, Netherland+Belgium and Yougoslavia was still fully alive thanks to the help of some French armies).

The ai seems a bit more aggressive?
Yes I quote that good point too for the first year when compared with all beta versions, and also for sea war.

Eventually, after one year or a bit more, previous versions like UE 1.0 was a little more aggressive, not fully sure.

I noticed a change with air bombing:
- The AI seems use more Air bombing for controlling area and engaging enemy planes than for casual and daily air bombing.
- A typical usage is a mass of bombers that damages a little ship army in the Mediterranean sea, that followed by a series of ships that finish destroying the wandering ships.
- Or mass of bombers that damages an army going near a town.
- But now for daily air bombing it seems the AI use it more to attack anything with plane or anti air then some important ships in an harbor then army in a town close to frontiers eventually to prepare an attack.

All of that are smarter tactical use of air bombing but it seems now town air bombing has disappeared but had been replaced by more tactical air bombing (but sometimes non efficient with air bombing of army in a town with a general healer).

Also something I suspect, in this 1.1 version if Stack Attack is off the AI seems to be a bit less aggressive in towns attacking but I'm not sure at all.

Canada even made an attack on Nazi Norway, and put the northern coast under their control--it really surprised me.
Wooo you lucky one, I'm jealous, I still have to see Germans take Norway and Canada do anything (map Europe 39).

I notice global warming is still on, which I still find real silly despite Dale's argument for it. Oh well... I guess I'll just have to go into WB now and then and correct this 'bug', you know, when desert wastelands spread around Berlin, Washington, and New York. (I'm surprised more aren't bothered by this.) :p
I understand your arguments on this point but also those of Dale. Myself I don't complain because I never see it but once. I think I manage towns in a way that avoid this. Yes I avoid the green face eventually by reducing number of people in a town or by selecting the factory and not build them all in each town.
 
Two more bombardment type glitches:

1) anti-air doing automatic bombardment, which is successful for 20%, but the receiving units are still at 100% at the begining of the turn -- they are not in a city with a hospital, and they do not have medic promotion. So, either they are mysteriously healing or are mysteriously not actually being damaged in the first place.

2) Bombardment from a large stack of ships, the log listing most of them hitting for like 20% damage. Yet, receiving units have no more than 20% damage, even though some of them had to receive more than one hit (i.e., e.g., more bombardment units were successful than the number of defending units, yet defending units appear to have received one hit max). Bombarders did not miss target and no healing occured. Looks like it does not actually account for more than one hit.


A.I. is more aggressive by far (yes, they have more units early on), but not more competent. PLaying as Japan, Open Mode, China attacked me after a couple years (even though I helped them in their holy war against Mao) -- they were strong, but sat back and let me systematically take all of their coastal cities over the course of a year or so. Imagine my surprise then to find HUGE stacks of Chinese infantry units sitting around in the inland forts in Tibet and in the tiny cities like Lhasa and Urumqui, after finding no more than a handful of units in each of the coastal cities. What were those units doing when I was taking Chongqing et al? Answer: nothing. They started moving around after I drove past them, but I may well be able to take China's last two cities without engaging those fortress units.

Speaking of aggressive, USSR just decided to attack both Japan (me) and Germany in the same turn. Germany is strong in this game (but they are a democracy now, so they hate me too), and I am the strongest, so it seems to be an unwise move. I suspect they did it because of political relations. Everyone seems to hate everyone else after a while ("you didn't help us in our pointless border war with TinyCountry", "you're following a heathen doctrine", "years of fair trade relations mean absolutely nothing to me"). That's OK if you're the opposite ideology. Unfortunately, if you are the same ideology you get no help whatsoever -- open borders maybe, trade yeah, defensive pact? "we've got too much on our plate plotting to maybe stab you in the back at our earliest convenience to even talk to you about that". Even gifts of key resources (iron and happy faces for everyone!) get nothing later on -- "we just don't like you enough to even talk about cancelling trade relations with your worst enemy, even though you could easily make up the trade deficit yourself, let alone going to war with them". They can ask me constantly to change my ideology, but I cannot ask them because they "don't like me enough"? Obviously this is only an issue for Open Mode since the relations are already set in Historical, but it would be kind of nice to have 'some' actual diplomacy.
 
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