Art and Lore

Valkrionn · Feb 16, 2010

Milaga said:
Do you really need that many tags? Can't you just clone the Great Person tags so that buildings would have something like "+2 Animal" or "+20% Adventurer"? Of course the icon would be replaced by the spawning icon.

EDIT: Wait ... those are the 15 tags you are talking about. Nevermind. :/

For the most part, yes. Doing a straight clone of the GP system would work for some civs (Grigori), but it would remove the random spawn mechanic, and have far too few modifiers.

Valkrionn · Feb 21, 2010

As this effects lore the most, I'm posting it here.

The Elohim Monk is being renamed the Friar. There are a few reasons for this:

First and foremost, the name is needed for a different, undisclosed project. Feel free to speculate wildly.
Second, I'm tired of the "Monk? It must be Eastern! Lets give it Ki Attacks!!11!1!" type crap. It's happened in quite a few mods... Honestly, even FF's promotions (and those in RifE) have names cutting it a bit close. The Elohim are quite obviously Western in origin, and influenced heavily by Christianity; Hence, the Friar name. It's close enough to the original meaning, and yet completely 100% non-ambiguous. It will instantly be seen as a western unit. The name fits far better in the aforementioned undisclosed project.

I'm also planning to change the art (which really doesn't fit the rest of the civ IMO, and is part of the whole "It must be Eastern!" thing... Much as I love SeZ's artwork, I think he went in the wrong direction there). To what, I'm not entirely set. For now, I'm thinking of this:

Spoiler :

Feel free to suggest different art, or to complain about the change. However, please speculate about the new feature which necessitated the name change in this thread.

Edit: To be clear, the only reason I'm announcing this now is so any complaints can be gotten out of the way and people can get used to the idea early, rather than after the patch. Still no ETA.

Jheral · Feb 21, 2010

For what it's worth, I like the "new" art, and I agree that it would be a good thing to move the Elohim away from Eastern influences (even though I do like the current Monk and it's art).

Valkrionn · Feb 21, 2010

The art itself will likely be kept, but not for this unit; A shirtless man with a staff does NOT help prevent people from assuming he's an Eastern monk. I think SeZ fell into the same stereotype there while making the art, I've never particularly felt it fit.

Fluesterwitz · Feb 21, 2010

I like both the name and the graphic. Also that they wield swords. Swords mean business ! :viking:

Valkrionn · Feb 21, 2010

Jheral said:
For what it's worth, I like the "new" art, and I agree that it would be a good thing to move the Elohim away from Eastern influences (even though I do like the current Monk and it's art).

Ah, I missed this one earlier; I like the current art too, I just don't think it fits. At all. IIRC Ahwaric is using it for his Dao civ, so when he gives the okay to merge that it'll be back. :lol:

Luckily, his naming doesn't interfere with my plans. :mischief:

Fluesterwitz said:
I like both the name and the graphic. Also that they wield swords. Swords mean business !

Honestly, if I could I'd change it to a mace. But a sword is good too. :lol:

Valkrionn · Feb 24, 2010

Alright people, I'm wanting to tweak the Recon line a bit. To summarize:

Drop Hunters to 3, equivalent to a warrior with low city attack
Drop the cost of Hunting to between 200-250; This brings it on par with other equivalent techs, makes camps more feasible, and most importantly drops the cost of FoL to that of OO and RoK.
All techs along the Recon path will have prices looked at; Most adjustments will be in the first few techs.
Add a new unit to the Tracking tech, at 5

So basically, Hunters are being split in two to keep the lowered price from being too powerful. I want to name the new unit the Tracker, but that is the name of the Austrin Ranger UU.

Which brings me to my question... What should I rename the Austrin UU? :lol:

Darksaber1 · Feb 24, 2010

Path finder?

Valkrionn · Feb 24, 2010

I'm not sure I like that, but after putting it in Thesaurus.com it DID lead me to 'Trailblazer' and 'Seeker'... Either of those could work, though I prefer Trailblazer.

odalrick · Feb 24, 2010

Valkrionn said:
I'm not sure I like that, but after putting it in Thesaurus.com it DID lead me to 'Trailblazer' and 'Seeker'... Either of those could work, though I prefer Trailblazer.

I agree that Trailblazer is best. In fantasy "Seeker" has many other connotations.

---

Will Hunters get a :hammers:

break along with the :strength:

nerf? Or something else?

I just don't see a niche for 3 :strength:

60

Hunter that requires a building.

Valkrionn · Feb 24, 2010

odalrick said:
I agree that Trailblazer is best. In fantasy "Seeker" has many other connotations.

---

Will Hunters get a break along with the nerf? Or something else?

I just don't see a niche for 3 60 Hunter that requires a building.

Yes, the Hunter will be adjusted entirely to fit; Cheaper cost, possibly no building requirement; I intend to leave it able to learn Subdue Animal, whereas the Tracker will start with it.

And yes, Seeker makes me think of Goodkind. :lol:

odalrick · Feb 24, 2010

Valkrionn said:
Yes, the Hunter will be adjusted entirely to fit; Cheaper cost, possibly no building requirement; I intend to leave it able to learn Subdue Animal, whereas the Tracker will start with it.

As an alternative, make Subdue Animal and Beast available for free with the appropriate tech and remove the +versus animals from both. Possibly even make them give a penalty; defeating, capturing and training must be harder than just killing.

Then Hunters can get it at the same cost as Trackers, but Trackers are the first unit strong enough to benefit.

Valkrionn · Feb 24, 2010

That's an interesting idea... Will think about it.

Valkrionn · Feb 24, 2010

Yeah, that's one of my hopes; Again, the main reason for the change is so that FoL will be brought into line with RoK and OO. That said, making Recon better is a good thing IMO.

Aoleleb · Feb 25, 2010

IMO, FoL is the best of the three already. Not because of any units, not because of temples bonuses, but because Guardian of Nature + Bloom + Lumbermill + Ancient Forests = WIN!

Valkrionn · Feb 25, 2010

Aoleleb said:
IMO, FoL is the best of the three already. Not because of any units, not because of temples bonuses, but because Guardian of Nature + Bloom + Lumbermill + Ancient Forests = WIN!

Few points:

I'm considering changing the Elven synergy with FoL, ala Orbis. Seems wrong for Elves to have the most populous cities.
Lumbermill in AF will be a poor choice....

Aoleleb · Feb 25, 2010

What the heck is "AF"?

Valkrionn · Feb 25, 2010

AF = Ancient Forest. I hadn't felt like typing it all out. :lol:

Aoleleb · Feb 25, 2010

o.O Works for me with the Archos *shrug*

Valkrionn · Feb 25, 2010

As I said in the post, will be. Not is. Talking about the next version.

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