Civ4 documentation wiki

Okay, I think we need to set a standard.

Technologies should be listed as:
Archery (Technology)

Units can be listed as-is, with only their name.

Combat Bonuses should be listed the same way. I think that everything in the Civilopedia (except for units) should be listed that way.

It helps in disambiguation. Unless it's too much trouble...

Why everybody ignore my rant against the multiples unnecessary categories ?

The unit template doesn't work for animals - or at least sounds silly :mischeif:. I wanted to stick N/A in for unit cost, but it goes to N/A hammers, which looks a tad weird. Ummm, maybe it needs a slightly different template or something (I'm not really sure how templates work).

As for catagories - to be honest, I have no idea which is better. What are the pros/cons of catagories vs lists?

The categories are good when you categorise an ever-expanding list of subject. So you don't have to actualise a page with all the names. But you can't customize the category page. It's always the same awful design.

Lists on a simple page are good when you're listing a limited number of subject. With page, you can customize and, most important, optimize it. Look at the current XML files page: XMLs are listed under their 'physical' path. With cat, you can't do that unless you begin to use sub-categories. And with that sort of list, it would be messy.

The con of list, vs categories, is the lack of direct link of the XML pages to the list itself. But it's easily corrected with a template: {{XML}} was built for this.

Since we won't do anything with future mods, the number of Python, XML files, Techs, ect, won't change. It's superflu to use categories when lists can do a better job.

That's my point of vue, now a decision has to be made. The Wiki begins to have proper goals, now it needs proper organisation to build around. It will be easier to make the cut now than after we have more contents. Rkyte, even if a Wiki is the sum of a community works, you're still the owner, you'll have the last word on that sort of topics.

Good work everyone. I just checked out the wiki and I especially like the XML & python pages.
A little organization will may this site an incredible resource for just about anyone.

Hmmm, ok. Having seen what Supa posted, I'd go with lists - they can be catagorised in the contents of the page right?

I think the units list page was done quite well myself (though I did do it...) - it was like a catagories page, but I think it looked better.

Just FYI, some of the Civ4 beta testers that post on Apolyton are also creating a Civ4 modders wiki.

Thread at Apolyton
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143505

Actual Wiki
http://modiki.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

Now remember it's not a competition to see who has the better wiki. It seems they had been planing there wiki for a little bit and it's just coincidental that peeps here have already started there own.

There's definately room for two wikis and the more resources for modders the better IMO.

Hmmm, I think one wiki would certainly be better than 2. All the information in one place is alot better than all of the information spread over two places!

It would appear that theirs was secret until today. Looking at it, it looks like they've got about the same amount of content as us. I think we should propose merging the two.

Yes, I also think a merger would be the best idea. No sense in having competing Wiki's.

How and where to merge, I've got no idea, but for now I'll adapt my XML pages at the Poly Wiki to fit with the proposed XML format used in your Wiki, as I think that's a good format.

Edit: Btw, I think all elements should have seperate pages - this will make it much easier in the future to create pages that contain all elements of a certain type - for example, should I wish to create a 'Commerce modifiers' page, that sums up all elements that affect commerce in one way or another.

Isak said:

Edit: Btw, I think all elements should have seperate pages - this will make it much easier in the future to create pages that contain all elements of a certain type - for example, should I wish to create a 'Commerce modifiers' page, that sums up all elements that affect commerce in one way or another.

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Very good idea. It'll be especially good for those multi-line tags - they can take up alot of space each.

Like Isak, I prefer the Civ4Wiki format for XML entries. I prefer also the list of XML. I'm not convinced by the "by folder" classement at Modiki. Otherwise, I like the tutorials and others articles. Apparently, the Modiki needs also a discussion about a proper organisation (cf. cat vs list). Both have goods contents and I'm for a fusion, of course

Isak - you mention that you are transferring information from an excel spreadsheet up onto modiki. Have you documented ALL the .xml tags? (in other words, is it worth me finishing off the units section?)

I've been slowly working through the CIV4UnitInfos xml filling in all the gaps. I think I've got most of them sorted (but I haven't typed it all up yet).

Hmmm.

I understand the need for the uniformity of the XML format on this wiki, but I have some issues with the current format.

Why can't the tags be in chronological order? Wouldn't this make them easier to find? We're working with the files as a whole, not putting up the XML file tags as their own articles. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but I just think it'd be easier to find specific tags if they're listed in the order that they occur in the file so that navigation is easier.

AFAIK, they don't have to be in chrono order in the file to work.

vbraun said:

AFAIK, they don't have to be in chrono order in the file to work.

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I don't think they have to be either. And when it comes to recreating XML files, the current XML article layout are fine. But as far as editing the current XML files, it'd be nice to have the tags in the order that they occur in the file, so you can find them and tweak them, AFAIK as you can't add a new tag at the beginning of an existing XML and leave another instance of it farther down with a different value.

Mr. Will said:

Why can't the tags be in chronological order? Wouldn't this make them easier to find? We're working with the files as a whole, not putting up the XML file tags as their own articles. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but I just think it'd be easier to find specific tags if they're listed in the order that they occur in the file so that navigation is easier.

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Hmmm, I'm not sure how much difference it would make. In a larger file I think I'd prefer them to be ordeded by tag type (as I know what type the tag I'm looking for is), however, I can see this not being necessary for smaller files. Hmmm... I supose we could do both...

I think each XML should have it's own article, as well as a general definition. Some of them need more clarification (esp. multi-liners), which would clog up the page if not moved somewhere else. I've begun work on doing such a thing, but it'll take a while, and I'm hesitant to continue until I know if Isak has already done it.

is there something new about the status of the two wikis? Should one still post or wait?

Isak said:

Yes, I also think a merger would be the best idea. No sense in having competing Wiki's.

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Merging is fine with me, either on my host or theirs. Unless there's some kind of outcry against it, there's no reason to have two. (Apolyton killed your brother and you've taken an oath of vengeance? OK then, I'll leave it up. ) You guys tell me.

Meanwhile I'll go register over there and see what we can work out. It looks like they only planned on having mod related information over there.

McBierle said:

is there something new about the status of the two wikis? Should one still post or wait?

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No point in waiting to post something to either wiki. Either we'll merge them and your information will make it to the combined wiki, or we won't and you'll be glad you got your information down early instead of waiting.

I don't see any realistic reason why they wouldn't get merged.

rkyte said:

Merging is fine with me, either on my host or theirs. Unless there's some kind of outcry against it, there's no reason to have two. (Apolyton killed your brother and you've taken an oath of vengeance? OK then, I'll leave it up. ) You guys tell me.

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They should move over to us, not the other way around.

vbraun said:

They should move over to us, not the other way around.

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absolutley; this is our (your) project started on its own by some players, not some elite beta goofs
wiki is for the mass not for some... ah ok... but it is true