Danmacsch's (Damasc's) civilizations

I am indeed using the DLL, what with Piety and Prestige.

I quite liked them, as said they're a really good expansive and forward-settling type of civ. Never got to see if the UB's too much, given I somehow never got warred against despite being super expansive between Assyria and the Goths and blocked off from meeting anyone else to help out against them. IMO what I found oddest was the doubling of metal resources, especially since trading 5 of them gets you a pretty damn good universal +25% combat bonus, I'd have done away with that part so you have to work for that combat strength a little bit more. And yeah maybe the Nuraghe should be an earlier and cheaper Walls, at Mining, for example. Ironically I see that coming really into its own late-game with the range bonus since later siege units gets difficult to defend from, but then that's kind of weird in its own.

I do think you represented this sort of difficult little-known civ pretty well though!

Thanks for the feedback all of you.

I hear what your saying - a nerf is needed

What change would you consider the most balanced?
- either remove the City Combat Strength/City HP entirely from the Nuraghe and keep the +1 range and food bonuses
- or remove the additional food bonuses, remove the City Combat Strength entirely, nerf the City HP, but keep the +1 range. In addition it would probably make sense moving the Nuraghe from Pottery to Mining (still keeping it a Granary replacement though); this would also allow the player to reach Construction faster, (thus the ability to create Ipogei, getting a Faith output up and running and founding a Pantheon), because it would make the most sense to start researching Mining instad of Pottery.

I'm kind of reluctant to remove the +1 Range from the UB - I think it synergizes very well with the UI. And also, I can't remember seeing something similar elsewhere..

Besides the above, I'll be nerfing the UA to +4% Combat Strength instead of +5% per exported metal (and capped at 20% instead of 25%) and probably lowering the UI's Faith output to +2 instead of +3.

But please, it seems you guys probably have a better understanding of what is balanced and what isn't, so your feedback is very valuable.

I like the food bonuses since it reflects the food culture in Sardinia (with them relying more on the land than the sea for their food), so personally I'd keep that even if just for the sake of flavour. So I vote option 1, since the +1 range bonus already reflects the defensive nature of the structures and is unique enough to warrant removing/nerfing the City Strength/HP bonuses.

As for moving it to mining, it does provide an alternative to those 'always research pottery first' plans and does help you reach the UI faster like you say. On the other hand delaying that shrine can be pretty harmful to getting that pantheon since getting to construction usually takes a while anyways. It's not too much of a problem on lower difficulties, but on higher difficulties, the AI always has pottery unlocked from the beginning and can build their shrines much earlier. EDIT: I just realised that you can still just research pottery first and then research mining second to get the UB since granaries aren't usually built straight away anyways.

The UI, I think, is fine as is. Though it relatively gives a lot of faith, you do sacrifice potential tile yields from say a farm or mine (or even a spot for a Great Person tile improvement). Though if you change it to +2 faith instead, I feel there should be some extra tile yield unlocked after researching a specific tech, just to buff it a tiny bit.

Kerfuffle said:

As for moving it to mining, it does provide an alternative to those 'always research pottery first' plans and does help you reach the UI faster like you say. On the other hand delaying that shrine can be pretty harmful to getting that pantheon since getting to construction usually takes a while anyways. It's not too much of a problem on lower difficulties, but on higher difficulties, the AI always has pottery unlocked from the beginning and can build their shrines much earlier. EDIT: I just realised that you can still just research pottery first and then research mining second to get the UB since granaries aren't usually built straight away anyways.

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I for one usually start off teching Pottery -> Writing -> Mining -> Masonry (mostly because I'm obsessed with the Mausoleum of Mausolus at Halicarnassus) and my typical build queue is Scout -> Monument -> Shrine -> Library with Granary getting built somewhere down the road when an opening permits. So moving the UB to Mining wouldn't affect me much. But I'm certainly not representative of the entire community.

I vote keeping the HP and stuff, and removing the range. It would be really annoying to have garrisoned archers hit you from three tiles away.

Don't nerf anything... people can't appreciate a good UA. To say that something is OP, you should play against it, not with it.

What? That makes no sense, Natan. I just said it would be annoying to play against.

Natan35 said:

Don't nerf anything... people can't appreciate a good UA. To say that something is OP, you should play against it, not with it.

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Nope, playing as something can yield the same reactions. You don't always have to play against something to determine how powerful it is. It's not that we don't appreciate the uniques either, that's just putting words in our mouths. To be perfectly honest, I don't mind the civ as is, but I can certainly see where people are coming from when they cry 'OP', even though I feel they are exaggerating quite a bit at times (people on Steam tend to do that ). We're just offering thoughts on how to tweak the civ a tiny bit to balance it out a little.

DoctorMcGann said:

I vote keeping the HP and stuff, and removing the range. It would be really annoying to have garrisoned archers hit you from three tiles away.

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After thinking about it, +1 range for ranged units only really effects one unit in the garrison so it's not really that much of a problem to deal with (but like you say, it'd be an annoyance to go up against for sure ). I guess it'd be really annoying if the cities are spaced close enough that archers from different cities can cover their flanks, especially on YnAEMP where you can settle 3 tiles away from a city (so archers from your cities can bombard other cities in the confines of their own city ). Though with that being said, a massive force of siege weapons, archers and melee units would still pose a problem for the defenders anyways.

The only thing that i would say needs nerfing it that +1 range.

Which is exactly what I said...

You're expecting Natan to make sense. That's adorable.

Anyway, frankly, I like it the way it is. Yes, it is annoying to play against, but that's kind of the point - they're meant to excel at defensive warfare, and there isn't really another Civ that does it like that. The only thing I'd change to keep that defensive war emphasis would be for the UA combat bonus to only apply in your territory. Hopefully that's of use.

Also, I've been working with Dan on a sooper-sekrit thing that's not really all that sekrit, but all I can say is that it's rather different to what came before. Fun fun fun!

Hm, I wonder what could it be? The third secret civ is kinda obvious to guess, the second secret civ is one I have personal information about, yet, the third civ...

Scapegrace said:

You're expecting Natan to make sense. That's adorable.

Anyway, frankly, I like it the way it is. Yes, it is annoying to play against, but that's kind of the point - they're meant to excel at defensive warfare, and there isn't really another Civ that does it like that. The only thing I'd change to keep that defensive war emphasis would be for the UA combat bonus to only apply in your territory. Hopefully that's of use.

Also, I've been working with Dan on a sooper-sekrit thing that's not really all that sekrit, but all I can say is that it's rather different to what came before. Fun fun fun!

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Thank you, Spoilergrace.

Glad to see I've gotten so much feedback - it makes one appreciate the Civfanatics community even more

Now..

Gyra Solune said:

I am indeed using the DLL, what with Piety and Prestige.

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Gyra Solune said:

I do think you represented this sort of difficult little-known civ pretty well though!

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Table removed in the next update and thanks!

Kerfuffle said:

I like the food bonuses since it reflects the food culture in Sardinia (with them relying more on the land than the sea for their food), so personally I'd keep that even if just for the sake of flavour.

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Yeah, that's settled then - the food bonus is staying.

DoctorMcGann said:

It would be really annoying to have garrisoned archers hit you from three tiles away.

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Natan35 said:

The only thing that i would say needs nerfing it that +1 range.

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Kerfuffle said:

After thinking about it, +1 range for ranged units only really effects one unit in the garrison so it's not really that much of a problem to deal with (but like you say, it'd be an annoyance to go up against for sure )

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Scapegrace said:

Yes, it is annoying to play against, but that's kind of the point - they're meant to excel at defensive warfare

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I get that the +1 range is annoying (especially on a YnAEMP map), but after a lot of consideration (and a couple of games on difficulty Prince to Immortal as well as about 8 AI-only games) I've concluded that it's the best way to represent the defensiveness of the Nuraghi (and the civilization in general); both simple and unique and far from game-breaking-ly overpowered.
Instead I've removed the City Combat Strength and HP bonuses.

Scapegrace said:

Also, I've been working with Dan on a sooper-sekrit thing that's not really all that sekrit, but all I can say is that it's rather different to what came before. Fun fun fun!

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Hopefully it will be - getting started right away (Note to self: hire person to do all my homework for me - I don't have the time between family life and civ modding!).

Hoop Thrower said:

The third secret civ is kinda obvious to guess, the second secret civ is one I have personal information about, yet, the third civ...

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The third twice? kidding aside, yes the third one is probably not to difficult to guess (with me being from CPH).
Regarding the second I actually have an almost finished leaderscene, which I - if I find time to finish it this weekend - can send to you. Would love to get your opinion on it.
The faith, fish and food project is the one farthest from completion, so I won't hint anything about that yet.

Update will be out as soon as I modify the Infographic.

EDIT: Updated The Nuraghians on steam and the direct download link.
Also; modified the infographic to have a 'cleaner' look.

That's fine, it's your civ, and anyone who doesn't like it can easily change it themselves!

Danmacsch said:

The faith, fish and food project is the one farthest from completion, so I won't hint anything about that yet.

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I have seen into the eyes of the abyss...

DoctorMcGann said:

That's fine, it's your civ, and anyone who doesn't like it can easily change it themselves!

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Of course that's an option if you dislike a certain aspect of a civ.

Kerfuffle said:

I have seen into the eyes of the abyss...

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You have, yes

Oh, and by the way, this is an image from one of the decisions:

The one I adopted... also, the decisions are very nice, but im not sure if two trerimes worth -60 influence...

It depends on if it's a city state you care about or not, I guess.

Natan35 said:

The one I adopted... also, the decisions are very nice, but im not sure if two trerimes worth -60 influence...

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Thanks. I know the mining decision isn't all that innovative, but it just fits very well with the UA. The other decision is a bit more interesting IMO.

But yes, maybe -60 is too much. Actually, I think I'll change it to be dependent on few other factors meaning the lose of influence will vary within some range.

Have any of you gotten the 'Pretender...' event yet? It's kind of drastic, but (hopefully) also very fun