SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

I've opened our T179 save to take a look around, but right away Isengarde is prompting me for the next item to put in the queue. What are you guys doing with this to take a look around at the game?

As far as I know entering an item in into the queue is kept track of in Buffy and I don't want to accidently invaladate our game by picking something just so I can look around.

As I understand it you can choose anything since this is a reversible change. It only matters what is in the queue when the turn ends. You will not be uploading your save anyway.

So, no harm. You can send Alan a PM if you are really concerned about it.
 
We need 44H Base Overflow (77H with active multipliers) into The United Nations to complete it in one turn assuming 36 base Hpt. I'm quite sure this is no longer possible, because we needed a significant amount of Hammer overflow into the build to complete on t179. It looks like we had no contingency plan for completing The United Nations one turn earlier than planned.

In my opinion, a more flexible micromangement plan that kept a significant amount of overflow by starting three different units (maybe Maceman, Trebuchet and Knight) and then finishing them prior to completing Mass Media would have been a better idea than building up the overflow for a single, inflexible, one turn target.

There is no way we can complete The United Nations in t180, because we have no overflow coming in on t179. Cascading overflow from at least two turns was essential to build up to the 44 base Hammers (77H multiplied) of overflow (minimum required) into The United Nations to complete it in t180.

We will have to be content with completing The United Nations in t181. So we may as well complete the Trebuchet in t179 and the Knight in t180 which will cascade enough Hammers into The United Nation in t181 to complete it that turn. Therefore, a t188 win is no longer possible; we must now be content with a t189 win (DV vote on t188).

Sun Tzu Wu

None of the pre-turnset discussion included possibility of a T180 UN. We will indeed need to be content with a T189 win.
 
As I understand it you can choose anything since this is a reversible change. It only matters what is in the queue when the turn ends. So, no harm. You can send Alan a PM if you are really concerned about it.

Cool, thanks Shulec. I'll just put a knight in the queue for Isengarde, take a look around, and then exit like I planned. Thanks much!
 
There is a minimize pop up options that I highly recommend for game use in general that should resolve the pop up issue you are having.

However, selecting a build is reversible so there isn't any problem with selecting a build in the save.
So either use the minimize pop ups option or just select a build.

The build is recorded in buffy, but as I said it is reversible so no harm done.
 
As I understand it you can choose anything since this is a reversible change. It only matters what is in the queue when the turn ends. You will not be uploading your save anyway.

So, no harm. You can send Alan a PM if you are really concerned about it.

Amusing. It must be doing this because on my game I have these popups set to come at the end of turn.
I believe shulec is correct though, you can just click anything and it won't matter as it's not an irreversible action.
 
I updated my population counts.

[pre]
Civ T153 T163 T173 T179
Us 103 120 147 167
GWN 80 96 103 113
WWN 77 82 85 92
GWW 77 82 96 105
WWW 54 58 76 85
GWS 100 120 131 141
WWS 88 100 125 127
GWE 93 100 89 50
WWE 70 86 90 94
Total 742 844 942 974
[/pre]



Currently our voting block of West-North-us has 562/974 votes. Asoka gets us to 612, which is 62.8%. So we are still on track, despite drafting. We look like we'll be able to settle 3-4 small cities to grow up.

There's some fudge in those numbers - we can't see four Ragnar cities, one Mansa city (probably on coast SE of capital). South won't trade us maps either.
 
Another reason to try the Caste System flip is to keep Asoka from whipping away our future population.

Yeah... it's a pity we lost the spy on T174 that was earmarked for the flip in Mathura :( Using the spy for the revolt in Bombay also stops a musket whip, but the flip is probably best overall. We can skip Bombay and come back for a concerted assault later on.
 
Just got a chance to look at the save.

I think we should cancel the spices trade to gandhi (we need that happiness)
Check every turn whether the west witches will declare on the east (I think the only reason they won't is they have a peace treaty which should expire soon)
I think we should change the slider to just finish Mass Media this turn and use the rest for gold. Don't finish Mass Media this turn. hell it doesn't matter since we don't have any taoist temples! Well it matters a little bit. I think the AI value the AP religion a bit more than not, so they are less likely to flip out of the AP religion. So Finish Mass Media next turn to keep Taoism the AP religion for 1 more turn.
(forget about gunpowder, there still is chance we could trade for it before the wizard attack-slim but possible that an AI might tech it after constitution)

I think we should save the spy in Bombay for a revolt not a civic switch. If he builds a longbow or moves units into that castled city it could be annoying.
Edit: crap I don't know. If he produces a longbow this turn it would be highly annoying. If we switch civics then the odds of him being able to do so are small. Okay flip his civic to caste I guess.


We still need to count votes, so I don't know if it makes sense to buy a few settlers or to buy more military units. (edit: mabraham did this)
Might want a pike in fur city for Indra defense.

I think we want 3 more expensive boats T179, 80, 81 (1080 of our gold). (4 boats means at least one has to upgraded with the GG to flanking and navigation I)
Anything beyond that we can use for settlers, units or spies. Plus more from our commerce.

Consider an amphibious assault of Bombay next turn with one boat load of mace if he doesn't produce a longbow or more defenders. If he doesn't produce more defenders then maybe the revolt isn't worth it. I would wait until next turn then either revolt if he produces more defenders or switch him to caste system if he doesn't. We can take out 1 sword with the castle with mace from a boat. The treb don't benefit from the castle's defenses.
Edit: landing a few maces makes sense too. I just didn't like the river. Attacking from the sea is more flexible and only 25% worse than the river crossing will be.
Edit#2: I'm okay with flipping him to caste this turn instead of the revolt.


I would move the medic knight in Var... one closer to Bombay so you have him to attack next turn. I know it would be nice to heal those knights faster, but if you have a knight attack on a sword in a castle that is better than amphibious maces.
Edit: Kaitzilla wants 2 knights from Var... to move in closer --I'd rather just the medic moves in closer since I want 2 defenders there in case there still is a lurking horse archer (or one that will be produced).

We might want to use the cultural slider for happiness in addition to canceling the spices trade to gandhi. We want our cities growing and there are enough cities unhappy that the cultural slider could actually net us some commerce.
We don't even have to finish mass media this turn. If we finish mass media this turn we lose the benefits of the AP, and it doesn't help us at all since we can't build the UN any earlier.
By the way we won't get another vote for the AP since it is going to be obsolete.

So I think we shouldn't finish Mass Media this turn.

trebs tearing down the castle of Madras should upgrade to accuracy for faster bombardment.
 
Ok, here is a photodump of the front lines. Because only WAR is important!


Spoiler :


















There were mostly injured units in Patalipuri.
There were 2 blimps in Pataliputra, 3 blimps in Madurai, and 2 blimps in Ayodhya.
 
Two Knights already in Wizard City (presumably the one with 10 XP was the Horse Archer previously there with 11 XP which should have been the unit the Great General attacked, giving it a free upgrade to Knight - no longer possible plus lost the chance of another promotion with just +2 XP).

From Indraprastha: Six Knights, excluding the one with a Shock promotion which is useless for this mission.

1-N+2-W of Indraprastha: 7 XP Knight (Can be included in GG attachment to gain 4th level promotion, non-Amphibious 12th Knight or left behind).

Isengard: Knight there plus one built next turn.

Preparation: Wizard City: Worker builds Road 1-NW of Wizard City (possibly not needed) to ensure last Knight for t182 makes it to the Great General promotion of 4th Galleon to 4 XP. There is no Taoism Missionary that can get here in time for the 4th Galleon to give 2XP in t181 via Theocracy.

1-W of Teotihuacan Rendezvous:

Galleons and Knights must rendezvous at 1-W of Teotihuacan by the end of t186. Four Galleons sail for Emerald City with 11-12 Knights on turn t187 and Knights attack. If The Wizard of Oz survives, surviving Knights and any held back from attacking attack on t188 for a final attempt at killing the Wizard (which should be totally unnecessary).

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Hmm, I would land the highest xp treb and two macemen next to Bombay right away. I would also pull up the knight medic and the most damaged knight with him. If we get lucky next turn with no reinforcements, we can easily take Bombay with a blimp attack.

However, if we cannot take Bombay next turn because a CG Musket appears, then we need to pillage the iron near Patalipuri. It is allowing Ragnar to continue making pikes and knights.

Madras also looks vulnerable with that shock maceman being the only decent defender. It might be worth going ahead and attacking both cities T180.

It sure does look like Asoka will be down to 3 cities soon! (1pop Mathura doesn't count)
 
Consider an amphibious assault of Bombay next turn with one boat load of mace if he doesn't produce a longbow or more defenders. If he doesn't produce more defenders then maybe the revolt isn't worth it. I would wait until next turn then either revolt if he produces more defenders or switch him to caste system if he doesn't. We can take out 1 sword with the castle with mace from a boat. The treb don't benefit from the castle's defenses.

Flip Asoka to Caste System this turn:
Pros
  • He can't whip a musket or longbow.
  • He can't whip in other cities, which include two that don't seem to have walls/castles.

Con
  • If one or more units come into Bombay the next turn, it will take several more units to take the city.

Wait and see for next turn:
Pros
  • Will help us lose fewer units if reinforcement arrive or are produced from whipping.
  • Gives us the option of using the spy for city revolt or caste system flip.
  • The mission will take fewer EP points due to being stationary an additional turn and may increase the likelihood of success (not sure on the last point.)

Cons
  • Waiting a turn increases the likelihood of units being whipped. (and walls/castles)
  • This exposes the spy detection. (Is ihe more likely to be detected in the Capitol?)
  • Allows an additional turn for Asoka to whip away our future population.

There appears to be a gamble either way. I would prefer to go for it.

What would affect our decision? Intel that Frogdude may have gotten from Airships.
Can one of the galleons move one turn SE to see if there are reinforcements coming?
 
Flip Asoka to Caste System this turn:
Pros
  • He can't whip a musket or longbow.
  • He can't whip in other cities, which include two that don't seem to have walls/castles.

Con
  • If one or more units come into Bombay the next turn, it will take several more units to take the city.

Wait and see for next turn:
Pros
  • Will help us lose fewer units if reinforcement arrive or are produced from whipping.
  • Gives us the option of using the spy for city revolt or caste system flip.
  • The mission will take fewer EP points due to being stationary an additional turn and may increase the likelihood of success (not sure on the last point.)

Cons
  • Waiting a turn increases the likelihood of units being whipped. (and walls/castles)
  • This exposes the spy detection. (Is ihe more likely to be detected in the Capitol?)
  • Allows an additional turn for Asoka to whip away our future population.

There appears to be a gamble either way. I would prefer to go for it.

What would affect our decision? Intel that Frogdude may have gotten from Airships.
Can one of the galleons move one turn SE to see if there are reinforcements coming?

I'm okay with a flip to caste system this turn.
 
Flip Asoka to Caste System this turn:
Pros
  • He can't whip a musket or longbow.
  • He can't whip in other cities, which include two that don't seem to have walls/castles.

Con
  • If one or more units come into Bombay the next turn, it will take several more units to take the city.

Wait and see for next turn:
Pros
  • Will help us lose fewer units if reinforcement arrive or are produced from whipping.
  • Gives us the option of using the spy for city revolt or caste system flip.
  • The mission will take fewer EP points due to being stationary an additional turn and may increase the likelihood of success (not sure on the last point.)

Cons
  • Waiting a turn increases the likelihood of units being whipped. (and walls/castles)
  • This exposes the spy detection. (Is ihe more likely to be detected in the Capitol?)
  • Allows an additional turn for Asoka to whip away our future population.

There appears to be a gamble either way. I would prefer to go for it.

What would affect our decision? Intel that Frogdude may have gotten from Airships.
Can one of the galleons move one turn SE to see if there are reinforcements coming?

That is a tough call. Losing Slavery would probably be the end for Asoka for sure. If he manages to construct a musket and reinforce Bombay that would slow us down a lot too.
 
There might be a knight under that pike that Ragnar has 1S of of his stack of doom. If we aren't doing anything to Ragnar's stack T179, we should be careful it doesn't get a free shot at our unpromoted knight holding our crossroads next to Isengarde.

Hopefully Ragnar isn't brilliant and moves 1W hehe.
 
Just got a chance to look at the save.

I think we should cancel the spices trade to gandhi (we need that happiness)
Check every turn whether the west witches will declare on the east (I think the only reason they won't is they have a peace treaty which should expire soon)
I think we should change the slider to just finish Mass Media this turn and use the rest for gold. Don't finish Mass Media this turn. hell it doesn't matter since we don't have any taoist temples! Well it matters a little bit. I think the AI value the AP religion a bit more than not, so they are less likely to flip out of the AP religion. So Finish Mass Media next turn to keep Taoism the AP religion for 1 more turn.
(forget about gunpowder, there still is chance we could trade for it before the wizard attack-slim but possible that an AI might tech it after constitution)

I think we should save the spy in Bombay for a revolt not a civic switch. If he builds a longbow or moves units into that castled city it could be annoying.
Edit: crap I don't know. If he produces a longbow this turn it would be highly annoying. If we switch civics then the odds of him being able to do so are small. Okay flip his civic to caste I guess.


We still need to count votes, so I don't know if it makes sense to buy a few settlers or to buy more military units. (edit: mabraham did this)
Might want a pike in fur city for Indra defense.

I think we want 3 more expensive boats T179, 80, 81 (1080 of our gold). (4 boats means at least one has to upgraded with the GG to flanking and navigation I)
Anything beyond that we can use for settlers, units or spies. Plus more from our commerce.

Consider an amphibious assault of Bombay next turn with one boat load of mace if he doesn't produce a longbow or more defenders. If he doesn't produce more defenders then maybe the revolt isn't worth it. I would wait until next turn then either revolt if he produces more defenders or switch him to caste system if he doesn't. We can take out 1 sword with the castle with mace from a boat. The treb don't benefit from the castle's defenses.
Edit: landing a few maces makes sense too. I just didn't like the river. Attacking from the sea is more flexible and only 25% worse than the river crossing will be.
Edit#2: I'm okay with flipping him to caste this turn instead of the revolt.


I would move the medic knight in Var... one closer to Bombay so you have him to attack next turn. I know it would be nice to heal those knights faster, but if you have a knight attack on a sword in a castle that is better than amphibious maces.
Edit: Kaitzilla wants 2 knights from Var... to move in closer --I'd rather just the medic moves in closer since I want 2 defenders there in case there still is a lurking horse archer (or one that will be produced).

We might want to use the cultural slider for happiness in addition to canceling the spices trade to gandhi. We want our cities growing and there are enough cities unhappy that the cultural slider could actually net us some commerce.
We don't even have to finish mass media this turn. If we finish mass media this turn we lose the benefits of the AP, and it doesn't help us at all since we can't build the UN any earlier.
By the way we won't get another vote for the AP since it is going to be obsolete.

So I think we shouldn't finish Mass Media this turn.

trebs tearing down the castle of Madras should upgrade to accuracy for faster bombardment.

I like rush buying 3 expensive boats.

Do we really want to put off Mass Media? We need to make sure our hammer double overflow in Washington is air tight for a 1turn UN build if we do.
 
There might be a knight under that pike that Ragnar has 1S of of his stack of doom. If we aren't doing anything to Ragnar's stack T179, we should be careful it doesn't get a free shot at our unpromoted knight holding our crossroads next to Isengarde.

Hopefully Ragnar isn't brilliant and moves 1W hehe.

It's a beserker under the pike.
 
If Ragnar moves closer to us next turn, we have a decent chance of hitting the stack of doom with blimps, then a catapult, then combat II knights. The surviving knights could upgrade to amphibous to heal and then race to our galleons. The great general knight could get Medic I as his 4th promotion and the +1 movement galleons could carry all the knights to the wizard while they heal.

The knights in theory would be able to attack, promote, and move 3 spaces on the road I think if Ragnar moves directly towards Indra.
 
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