Specialized Luxuries

Civ V handles luxuries pretty well I think- they make sense from a historical context but I think they may not reflect the true way that real life handles luxuries. In real life, the place that a "luxury" comes from can be as important as what the luxury is. It's not just wine, it's French wine. I think if some changes were made or a mod produced that allowed certain ways to differentiate your luxuries from other luxuries, it could provide a more interesting way to play the game.

Also, I think it's odd that luxuries are often raw materials, as if each Civ can create everything they need from them. There are many luxuries today where it's the craftsmanship, not the material that makes the quality. A fine Italian suit is made of silk, but it's the suit we buy, not the silk. We go for the quality of the tailor. I wonder if there could be a balanced way to have a city "create" a new luxury from an existing one (perhaps with some sort of great person?).

Also, why not complimentary bonuses for having luxuries that match well with each other? Dyes and silk? Those seem like they'd compliment each other pretty well. Gems and gold? Just a side thought.

I think your suggestions are already represented somewhat in the game. Trade routes give you more money with more luxuries at a specific location, the mints/circuses/monasteries all improve specific resources although this could be expanded and they also reward luxuries that make sense being together.

I'll admit it's a little abstract but the foundations are there to be expanded on.

dunkleosteus said:

Civ V handles luxuries pretty well I think- they make sense from a historical context but I think they may not reflect the true way that real life handles luxuries. In real life, the place that a "luxury" comes from can be as important as what the luxury is. It's not just wine, it's French wine. I think if some changes were made or a mod produced that allowed certain ways to differentiate your luxuries from other luxuries, it could provide a more interesting way to play the game.

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An idea (a good one) from the real world!, but I think it would make the game a little too complex for most people.
I`d create a resource-specific building for each resource (luxuries included) (like the circus already is, although I´d use only elephants for them and use the horses for stable, makes kinda sense, because horses are a strategic resource), and try to keep the game streamlined while doing so.

Maybe the continental tilesets could generate what luxuries can be found from them, thus providing some true life to the game. Though there are always mods, but should come with the basic game generator too.

yeah but that would also require France to have a starting bias that includes Wine as a luxury resource. Effort

Elite999 said:

Maybe the continental tilesets could generate what luxuries can be found from them, thus providing some true life to the game. Though there are always mods, but should come with the basic game generator too.

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YES YES YES! Right now, for instance, the 'Terra' map type has only one purpose: to put all the civs on one smaller continent where they can be conquered faster. There are NO special resources of any kind to be found on the 'new world' continent, so for the player, there is no reason to go there. It is one of the more nonsensical maps provided, because of that poor implementation.

For an eye-opener, read Charles Mann's books, 1491 and 1493. The first describes the Americas before the Columbian Contact, and all the ways they were doing things differently from Europe.Asia/Africa. Little Techs like Forest Farming, replanting jungles, building meadows for buffalo in Ohio (about 500 miles from where the 'buffalo roamed' naturally!). The second is even more important, because it describes all the changes to the Rest of the World as a result of contact with the Americas. Just for starters, there's the spread of the addictive substances: tobacco, cocoa/chocolate, then there's the massive changes in diet from the spread of potatoes, tomatoes, maize, peppers - these had, literally, world-altering effects. To quote Mann, "Any history of Europe in the 16th - 17th centuries that doesn't mention the potato isn't worth reading."

Enough of the advertisement. Point is, you have touched on a single change that could make a major difference in how the game is played with any multi-continent map.

To return to the OP's point, I think that 'Luxuries' could come in two varieties: 'regular' luxuries that are the result of basic craftsmanship and the raw material: what we have now. BUT if you add a specialized 'craftsmanship resource' to the resource, you can produce Special Luxuries (Deluxe?) that demand much higher prices and improve 'Happiness' at higher rates than the regular luxury.

So, for instance, 'French Wine' might come about not from a 'Unique Attribute', but because you were the first Civ to have a Monastery working on the vineyards, improving the wine to the point of Special.
Fine Mayan Wine, anyone?

Let's see, possible pairings of Buildings with Luxuries:
Wine ............... Monastery
Marble.............. Stoneworks
Gems .............. Workshop
Gold/Silver........ Mint

AND some Great People might even get an Extra Action: expend one of them to convert (read: found an institution) a resource into a Special Resource:
Great Artist....... Gems, Silk, Cotton, Dyes (design, tailoring)

And some could require combinations, for example Cocoa/Sugar together with a Monastery could give you Fine Chocolates, while Fine Jewelry could come from Ivory/Gold/Gems/Silver (any two) and a Great Engineer.

This has a lot of possibilities, and the extra complexity should not be a problem: Each 'special' can only be produced by one civ in a game, so most of the time you will have relatively few choices to make: no way you will have all the resources available to try for more than 1 - 3 Special Luxuries in a given game. On the other hand, a Special Luxury might, in addition to Happiness and Trade advantages, also add to your Culture, so it would be worth trying when you got the chance ...

Boris Gudenuf said:

To return to the OP's point, I think that 'Luxuries' could come in two varieties: 'regular' luxuries that are the result of basic craftsmanship and the raw material: what we have now. BUT if you add a specialized 'craftsmanship resource' to the resource, you can produce Special Luxuries (Deluxe?) that demand much higher prices and improve 'Happiness' at higher rates than the regular luxury.

So, for instance, 'French Wine' might come about not from a 'Unique Attribute', but because you were the first Civ to have a Monastery working on the vineyards, improving the wine to the point of Special.
Fine Mayan Wine, anyone?
.

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Yep, that sounds like a good alternative.

But, if I think about the continents, there should be more variety to them, there should be more of them :
For example divide the Europe to North, Middle, West, East and South. So, there`s five, and if the World is divided to four continents, then we could have 20 unique areas represented (shouldn`t be too much).

Also, (just being precise) when dividing the continents, we must keep them together, we don`t want to find the mediterranean area from Australia for example

Thus we could have scattering of the resources more "real", find that fine french wine from south or west Europe.

Also, as I`m from northern Europe, I think we should have pine forests up here too.

And lots and lots of timber!

Elite999 said:

Yep, that sounds like a good alternative.

But, if I think about the continents, there should be more variety to them, there should be more of them :
For example divide the Europe to North, Middle, West, East and South. So, there`s five, and if the World is divided to four continents, then we could have 20 unique areas represented (shouldn`t be too much).

Also, (just being precise) when dividing the continents, we must keep them together, we don`t want to find the mediterranean area from Australia for example

Thus we could have scattering of the resources more "real", find that fine french wine from south or west Europe.

Also, as I`m from northern Europe, I think we should have pine forests up here too.

And lots and lots of timber!

Click to expand...

Within a single continent there shouldn't be any need to specifically subdivide it as long as the topography/rainfall/temperature are different in the different 'regions': ancient Germans knew all about the grape and wine, but they couldn't grow a decent grape in the climate of northern Europe, so imported thousands of jugs of Greek and Roman wine. The division within Europe was neatly marked by geographical factors which are in the game already.

I miss the old division into deciduous and pine forests in Civ. I'm not certain there's a Resource that is specific to one or the other, but they could be a neat Visual Marker for a change in climate that marks the availability of other resources...