Civilization elimination thread

Fixed double post of America, Arabia, Austria, and Aztec! I also deleted India, since it is the first Civ voted out!

America 21
Arabia 20
Austria 14
Aztec 23
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 20
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 14
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 21
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 18
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 15
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 20
Spain 16
Sweden 21

I love playing as the Mongols because their UA is so useful for domination and conquest. The extra movement for mounted units can be devastating, especially when used with the Keshik and Khan together. The Huns are good for quick campaigns too, but a little too early in the game for me. I like to spend the early game exploring and building (and defending, if need be) more than campaigning. The Middle Ages is when I usually make my move and it doesn't get any better than the Mongols. The only challenger for me, personally, is Arabia (with another powerful unit in the Middle Ages) and an awesome UB!

Germany is just awful for me. I don't care about getting a ton of early units from barbarians, which could be helpful if I wanted an early campaign (just not my play style).

America 21
Arabia 20
Austria 14
Aztec 23
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 20
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 14
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 21
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 15
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 21

Wow, nobody really loves India isn't it

i think the corrections got rid of the wrong duplicates. based on the post before Anvari's and no choices for the 4 since then i think it should be as follows:

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 20
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 14
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 21
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 15
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 21

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 20 +1
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 20 -2
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 14
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 21
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 15
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 21

I give the thumbs up for Babylon - I had the greatest success with this civ in my Deity OCC games, finishing as early as T230. The Bowman is decent to stop early enemy advances and the Walls of Babylon keep your city secure even if didn't settle on a hill tile. I tend to agree that in the long run Korea's bonuses outweigh Babylon's, but I find the early game advancement crucial, so I'd rather have the planted GS right away and then decide what I want to do with it. Babylon isn't only Education and RA's you know... Tech quickly in the Military tree and you will crank out gunpowder units while everyone else is still polishing their shortswords. I just love the flexibility this civ gives the player.

I'd like to denounce England because of their lack of early-game power. You can get easily trounced by the likes of Greece, Huns, Aztecs, Japan, Rome, China (I'd take CKN over Longbowman any time) and Persia, for example. Their naval warfare option is good, but also situational, and based on the map you're playing. Spawn away from water and it is GG to you.

EDIT: Fixed the wrong duplicates in my post

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 20
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 12
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 15
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 21

Inca:their UA and their terraces are great and remember you all game long you are playing them.
Germany: I'm never even tempted to play them. But I always like to meet them and the way Bismarck says in German that I have to 'taste' his offer.

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 12
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 13
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Sweden: I just love having a horde of infantry with march, medic I & II and some other promos right away.
Polynesia: The downrating really is harder. I'm going with Polynesia since I don't find their UU or UI very interesting.

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 13 +1
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 11 -2
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Polynesia: I dislike them so much I usually disable them completely from the game. If i forget to do so and he shows up I make eeeeh.... I just cant take him serious he reminds me more of a travel commercial than a powerful nation leader. Also he is a wonder *****.

Germany: My old buddy. I like playing with him, cause it feels somehow different.

Bakspatel said:

Wow, nobody really loves India isn't it

Click to expand...

I like them for OCC. You get much more happiness on higher difficulties, and only with India I managed to get a bunch of golden ages in crucial moments (e.g. when I need the cash and culture) and in the end, get a 50+ turns golden age. Still, they are not meant for casual play, as there are way better civs to play for any type of victory, for example:

1. Domination - India is one of the LAST you would ever pick
2. Culture - why India, when Egypt and its wonder production does so well here? Rammesses wicked wonders production takes just a few more turns to build than the free building they give as a result.
3. Diplomatic - why play India, when Sweden and Siam work wonders for this type of victory...
4. Science - Korea and Babylon are the logical choices here. India falls way back in the line...

So for OCC, India could be a good civ to play, but in the end, it fails at anything else. I should stop here before I go further off topic

The post with the copy/paste issue didn't just duplicate several of the civs, the poster also gave Austria +2 not +1 so should have set them at 13 at that point and I haven't seen any other votes on Austria since that post.

As for all the Austria hate I can only speak for myself, but suspect others feel about the same as I do. Yes it's a very powerful UA and can be fun to use, however the mechanics of the UA are poorly coded because once the CS is married to Austria it can never be liberated so the bonus food/culture/faith/units are permanently removed from the game. Since the Mercantile CS's bonus is actually a special tile under their capital, it's the only one that can't be permanently removed. So for me, it's more about hating the poor coding of this UA than it is about the idea civ itself. IMO, until this is fixed so the CS can be liberated, Austria will be the worst civ to play as or against.

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 13
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 22
France 20
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 9
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Netherlands - As others have pointed out the UI is great when you can build it. The UA is often underestimated. The Sea Beggar is a great unit even if you don't like melee ships, because like the Privateer it can be used to capture any ship. What makes the Sea Beggar even better than a Privateer is it starts with Coastal Raider 1 & 2 and Supply. So with just a barracks and armory you can pump out Sea Beggar's with Coastal Raider 1 & 2, Boarding Party 1 & 2 and Supply. The Privateer only comes with Coastal Raider 1 so it takes a barracks and armory just to make it as good as a 0 experience Sea Beggar.

Polynesia - The only thing this civ really had going for it was the ability to scout the seas with any land unit before astronomy. Now that we can get a Great Admiral in G&K very early with any civ that can do the same thing with more sight range and faster movement, this civ just isn't that good anymore. The UI is fairly weak unless you can manage to get 4 of them touching each other on flat grasslands. Even then you'd still need a lot of extra food and citizens to work those tiles without stagnating.

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 13
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 14
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 9
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Like: France. I have played as France the most in my Civ 5 time. I enjoy the culture bonus they get at the start and mid game I enjoy their military power and how they can expand into another UU from it. The colors are great and even when I play against a France AI I almost always have fun perusing to topple their massive empire.

Dislike: Ethiopia. While I enjoy a OOC sometimes, and the Stele is a great culutre/spiritual building. I just dislike the fact that this Civ, like others, thrives so much on being a small empire. I prefer expansion and when you expand (like the already knocked out India), you lose a lot of weight with your UA. You can argue France's UA is strangled like Ethiopias, becoming useless after a time. But Ethiopias can be wasted in the first few turns if you are an expansionist player or a warmonger.

Netherlands - As others have pointed out the UI is great when you can build it. The UA is often underestimated. The Sea Beggar is a great unit even if you don't like melee ships, because like the Privateer it can be used to capture any ship. What makes the Sea Beggar even better than a Privateer is it starts with Coastal Raider 1 & 2 and Supply. So with just a barracks and armory you can pump out Sea Beggar's with Coastal Raider 1 & 2, Boarding Party 1 & 2 and Supply. The Privateer only comes with Coastal Raider 1 so it takes a barracks and armory just to make it as good as a 0 experience Sea Beggar.

Click to expand...

I don't really like effects that give you more units, like Sea Beggars, Ottomans UA, or Germany's UA. It usually just ends up being a needless strain on my economy.

knighterrant81 said:

I don't really like effects that give you more units, like Sea Beggars, Ottomans UA, or Germany's UA. It usually just ends up being a needless strain on my economy.

Click to expand...

It can actually boost your economy if those captured units are near enough to move them inside your borders and delete them on the following turn. Or if those captured units help you take an enemy city on the following turn.

Plus attacking coastal cities with the Coastal Raider promotions gives you gold. So if you're less inclined to use the Sea Beggar for capturing enemy ships, with just a barracks you can pump them out with Coastal Raider 3 which means you'd take an amount of gold equal to 100% of the damage done to the city. CR1 33% +CR2 33% +CR3 34% = 100%. Since the Sea Beggar starts with Supply (25 hp healed per turn outside friendly territory) having a few of them to attack coastal cities can give you a significant boost to your economy while cycling them between healing and attacking.

It can actually boost your economy if those captured units are near enough to move them inside your borders and delete them on the following turn. Or if those captured units help you take an enemy city on the following turn.

Plus attacking coastal cities with the Coastal Raider promotions gives you gold. So if you're less inclined to use the Sea Beggar for capturing enemy ships, with just a barracks you can pump them out with Coastal Raider 3 which means you'd take an amount of gold equal to 100% of the damage done to the city. CR1 33% +CR2 33% +CR3 34% = 100%. Since the Sea Beggar starts with Supply (25 hp healed per turn outside friendly territory) having a few of them to attack coastal cities can give you a significant boost to your economy while cycling them between healing and attacking.

Click to expand...

What kind of victory/empire management strategies do you take as William? The UA seems ideal for a Tradition opener, the Polder suggests going with gold strategies and Commerce , (which doesn't necessarily mesh well with a Tradition start since you want lots of gold generating cities, different luxuries. The other thing about city raiding with the Sea Beggar is it trashes your diplomacy, which a gold-focused civ is going to favor for victory types.

America 19
Arabia 20
Austria 13
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 12
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Polynesia:
You guys are crazy for downvoting them. One of the best Liberty/ICS civs in the game because they can settle on every continent right from the start and get more unique luxuries and great city locations.
Also the Moai statues are amazing, you just have to know how they work and where to build them for maximum potential (not just build them on every coastal tile and ruining your production/growth xD). Any small peninsula can yield multiple tiles with 4-6 culture per tile. Even though you are spamming cities, your culture can still compete with the increased social policy costs.
One of my favourite civs!

Denmark:
Let's face it. The melee line got severely nerfed against cities. Swordsmen and longswordsmen are mediocre units at best. Problem is that Denmark is designed around these units and in GnK they lost a lot of momentum. It's still fun to play with them but I do think they're bottom tier now.

America 17 (-2)
Arabia 20
Austria 14 (+1)
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 12
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

America - I know about value of sight, but it's not enough.
Austria - If I can win at deity with play far from optimal it have to be strong, CS marriage has absurd value for money.

America 17
Arabia 20
Austria 14 - 2 = 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 12
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 22 + 1 =23
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 19
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Cool thread idea, I can't wait to see who'll win. The choice is hard since I have so much love, and also so much hate to give!!

Upvote inca for their UI who completely change the map reading. When I'm not playing them and I see a hilly mountain city and realize I can't settle there I cringe! The UA is incredible too early on and for warfare.

Downvote Austria as I refuse to play it/ with it in my game. Seems broken and very annoying. Can't believe you can't liberate the cities! I know we should vote for weak civ instead of broken ones, but I want her out as fast as I can. Plus she's no Theodora!

America 17
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 10
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 20
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

Denmark I dislike their special skill.
Roman is great for getting all of your cities builds upto the current tech you have.

America 17
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 10
Egypt 17
England 18
Ethiopia 20
France 21
Germany 13
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 18
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

France: Lots of culture and great UU.
Iroquois: Their UA/UU/UB are totally uninteresting. Their UA is even worst, since any Civ building roads have the same benefits.

America 17
Arabia 20
Austria 12
Aztec 23
Babylon 21
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 10
Egypt 17
England 19 (+1)
Ethiopia 20
France 22
Germany 11 (-2)
Greece 22
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 18
Japan 21
Korea 19
Maya 23
Mongolia 21
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19
Songhai 18
Spain 16
Sweden 22

England: Get the Great Lighthouse, and the movement bonus in the commerce branch, and you'll have your Ships of the Line buzzing back and forth between two continents in two turns. I've had a couple of games where I just park them in the middle of the ocean, and call on them when needed.

Germany: So "if" I win against this barbarian camp, I "might" get a chance to obtain and pay the maintenance cost on a sub-par unit. Even with the 1/3rd army discount, this is just pathetic. Landsknecht's go very well with their UA, but it still doesn't make up for the UA being not only boring, but also luck based.