Livestream #3: "Affinities: Which Direction?" - Aug 28th

Hmmm the affinities seem pretty linear, all of them have the same layout basically.
1. Something to do with aliens
2. Something to do with sat coverage
3.plus 4 resource
5. Affinity specific operation.
6. Vcon

I was under the impression that each would be drastically different.
However, im loving how intuitive the interface is, its very clear and apparent what everything is and does and like civ 5 you can tell what good land is just by looking at it.

Except Harmony has to do with Miasma instead of satellites.

Eagle Pursuit said:

Except Harmony has to do with Miasma instead of satellites.

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Yeah. They still seem interesting, but it feels like ideologies all over again, where there were a lot of the same bonuses across them, just slightly tweaked(happiness from universities instead of workshops, for example).

swordoflight86 said:

See, I see affinities as a belief system. Almost like a religion. I don't think an ardent xenophobe will change their minds about hybridizing humanity with aliens just because xenomass happens to be the most convenient strategic resource. Same with a technophobe and cybernetics, as well as a post-humanist or environmentalist and purity standpoint.

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However, it might be shaped by the resources available.
If breakthroughs in supercomputers are possible because of Firaxite, cyberphiles might become more influential in society.
If there seems to be a possibility of dramatic industrial technologies because of Floatstone, allowing the alien planet to be overcome, those believing in humanity's greatness would encourage society to reach those goals.
etc.

However other factors may be important as well. Is there the opportunity for humanity to create a great Purity wonder under you, do you need the Harmony/Supremacy tech bonuses.

Esperr said:

Hmmm the affinities seem pretty linear, all of them have the same layout basically.
1. Something to do with aliens
2. Something to do with sat coverage
3.plus 4 resource
5. Affinity specific operation.
6. Vcon

I was under the impression that each would be drastically different.
However, im loving how intuitive the interface is, its very clear and apparent what everything is and does and like civ 5 you can tell what good land is just by looking at it.

Click to expand...

Well the first few levels are different
Purity=explorer alien immunity, alien attack, orbitals
Supremacy=better explorers, free roads, orbitals
Harmony=nicer aliens, Miasma, miasma

Also we don't know about buildings...
and it seemed Purity got some pretty significant Improvement bonuses.

Different building/improvement bonuses could make a huge difference (he mentioned Supremacy needing lots of energy)


And there are some differences in their unique units
Supremacy=
Angel:Melee+Ranged+2move
SABR: Ranged+1 move
CRVR: Melee+2move
CNDR: Melee+2move

Purity
LEV Destroyer: Ranged+melee+2 move+Hover
LEV Tank: Ranged+melee+2 move+Hover
??
??

Harmony
Xenotitan ??
??
??
??

Those ?? could change significantly how battles go

Not to mention the differences in the perks for upgrading the units; Supremacy gets some bonuses based on how it's positioned compared to the enemy, Purity gets raw strength or mobility, and Harmony gets guerilla warfare style bonuses.

*According to http://www.well-of-souls.com/civ/civbe_overview.html#

Someone put the livestream on YouTube in three parts:


Link to video.


Link to video.


Link to video.

forgive me if this messes up. I've never embedded video before.

Well. It's messed up.

Moderator Action: Fixed embedded YouTube links

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Another observation from watching the video: Pete and David say that Purity will probably need to be very aggressive towards the aliens since they need land. So, it seems like it might be especially good for a purity player to also invest in level 1 harmony as a way of mitigating the effects of attacking the aliens so much.

SupremacyKing said:

Another observation from watching the video: Pete and David say that Purity will probably need to be very aggressive towards the aliens since they need land. So, it seems like it might be especially good for a purity player to also invest in level 1 harmony as a way of mitigating the effects of attacking the aliens so much.

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At the moment, those initial bonuses seem quite potent and too much like low-hanging fruits. I'd push them up a level or two to force the player to accept a considerable compromise (as opposed to a very minor setback) if their intent is to nab the early yet serious bonuses of their off-focus affinities. But I understand the game's still in the process of being balanced at this point.

Lord Shadow said:

At the moment, those initial bonuses seem quite potent and too much like low-hanging fruits. I'd push them up a level or two to force the player to accept a considerable compromise (as opposed to a very minor setback) if their intent is to nab the early yet serious bonuses of their off-focus affinities. But I understand the game's still in the process of being balanced at this point.

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Yes, I kind of feel like players should get level 1 in all 3 affinities in every game regardless of their chosen affinity.

If you rip YouTube videos like me, be aware that Eagle Pursuit's video links have annoying sound issues. Better off waiting for a higher quality versions or just watch it from the Twitch site.

Twitch sucks.

SupremacyKing said:

Another observation from watching the video: Pete and David say that Purity will probably need to be very aggressive towards the aliens since they need land. So, it seems like it might be especially good for a purity player to also invest in level 1 harmony as a way of mitigating the effects of attacking the aliens so much.

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I brought up this concept earlier. Can you take advantage of more than one affinity at the same time?

Louis XXIV said:

I brought up this concept earlier. Can you take advantage of more than one affinity at the same time?

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I don't think so; you probably only get affinity level benefits for the dominant affinity. Otherwise I think it would be too easy to stack too many benefits.

AriochIV said:

I don't think so; you probably only get affinity level benefits for the dominant affinity. Otherwise I think it would be too easy to stack too many benefits.

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I assume it's that way for units, but that would be enough to keep you from trying to go multi affinity. If you go to level six in all three you probably won't have time to get up to 12 in one and thus never get to the highest level units

AriochIV said:

I don't think so; you probably only get affinity level benefits for the dominant affinity. Otherwise I think it would be too easy to stack too many benefits.

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I'm not sure of that... after all if you spend research getting the low level benefits you don't get the high level units.

The issue would be if the game ever gives you a reason to get a secondary affinity. (because we don't know the answer to these questions)
Do you get the "affinity benefits" for that level?
Can you build the "affinity units" if you get a high enough level?
Can you build the "affinity improvements/buildings" if you get a high enough level?

Or is the only reason you get a secondary affinity because you really wanted whatever was on that tech.

I remember them mentioning the idea of 'hybrid approaches'... not as the preferred strategy but as something to do.

It could be those level 1 (and even level 3) are something everyone is expected to have by late game (so roads/magrails free, Miasma only does 5 hp dmg, You get a bonus attacking aliens (who forget that you attack them faster and ignore Explorers which have 2 expeditions baseline))

Specializing in an affinity means you get that bonus early in the game instead of later.

Also it's implied you don't have to decide right away what affinity you will specialize in. So getting one or two levels into one and being locked out of the first levels of your true affinity would be irritating. That's probably why the first unit upgrades are the same for all affinities. Because they expect you to meander for a while and don't want to lock you in too soon.

Purity 1 needs to be changed I think. A very useful bonus in-and-of-itself ... but it appears to be opening up all sorts of game-breaking exploits. Herding Siege Worms into neighbor territory anyone? No Diplomatic penalty or Espionage risk. How about Artillery that plinks away at Aliens with no risk, from behind a wall of Explorers?

Change it to something reasonable like -turns for Expedition or +% vs Aliens.

Harmony 1 is still a bit questionable if you can exploit it and/or how much. Looks like it could be some trouble, but should be rather easy to balance at least.

Supremacy 1 looks reasonable and without potential for exploits.

Aeson said:

Purity 1 needs to be changed I think. A very useful bonus in-and-of-itself ... but it appears to be opening up all sorts of game-breaking exploits. Herding Siege Worms into neighbor territory anyone? No Diplomatic penalty or Espionage risk. How about Artillery that plinks away at Aliens with no risk, from behind a wall of Explorers?

Change it to something reasonable like -turns for Expedition or +% vs Aliens.

Harmony 1 is still a bit questionable if you can exploit it and/or how much. Looks like it could be some trouble, but should be rather easy to balance at least.

Supremacy 1 looks reasonable and without potential for exploits.

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If 'immovable explorers' is a problem, then they can change it to "Alien attacks cause Explorers to retreat to the nearest empty tile without taking damage"

So explorers are not an immovable wall, but they are never going to get killed by aliens.

(although that would have a problem with explorers on an expedition)


How about this

"Explorers are not attacked by Alien units, and can share space with them"

so the explorers 'evade' alien units

or

"Explorers are not attacked by alien units, unless they are adjacent to another explorer"

Taking care of the primary issue of a wall/herding explorers

Also, there are the manticores, alien units who can lob acid balls over the explorers, also the flying drones and I'm pretty sure the Siege Worms can tunnel under obstacles to swallow the units behind them.

I think that keeping in mind that a minimum 12 virtues toward a specific victory type is a good place to start before thinking of mixing and matching virtues.

Mixing choice of virtues across affinity lines potentially lengthens the game, I think.

s0nny80y said:

I think that keeping in mind that a minimum 12 virtues toward a specific victory type is a good place to start before thinking of mixing and matching virtues.

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I think you mean affinity levels.

However those 13 levels are only needed for Affinity Victories.
No Affinity is needed for Contact or Conquest
(Although military units are tied to your highest affinity level)